This is pretty much what he's saying. Discussion about anti-semitism - "oh, it's the Israel lobby". FFS.
I don't argue about this stuff much online, contrary to appearances on here I guess. It must be so tiring.
Keir Starmer
I don't argue about this stuff much online, contrary to appearances on here I guess. It must be so tiring.
craner
Beast of Burden
Thanks, that's really helpful, I'd been wondering what my view was.
craner
Beast of Burden
It's brilliant, I love it. The Jews have fixed it with anti-semitism smears. Nothing to see here.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
It would be one thing if Corbyn was opposed to all power structures generally and on principle - a sort of equal-opportunities global anarchist (never mind the paradox inherent in that person attempting to become PM).
But that clearly isn't the case - he's willing to support power structures alright, just not those aligned with this country, America or Israel.
luka
Well-known member
Don't be facetious Craner.
Thanks but feel free to take the day off though, we're good.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
john eden
male pale and stale
He did not deny everything though. He made a point that the number of complaints about anti-semitism were exagerrated. Which it seems to me that they were, as I remember reading a report in which it was claimed that hundreds, if not thousands, of the complaints came from one person.
john eden
male pale and stale
My position remains that:
1. Corbyn is a longstanding principled anti-racist.
2. He has tolerated people with dogshit "anti-imperialist" student politics too much because of their shared time together in the lefty wilderness.
3. He failed to deal with the accusations of anti-semitism comprehensively and his cack handed equivocations of "all racisms matter" were idiotic.
4. His opponents inside the party sabotaged his attempts to deal with this and magnified the problem.
5. His opponents outside the party weaponised the issue of anti-semitism for their own ends.
(4 and 5 are just politics. He and his team should have been prepared for this. He was too nice.)
My prediction is that when the internal investigation against Corbyn and those tainted with his politics has been concluded, anti-semitism will suddenly cease to be an issue that people talk about, except perhaps as a way of shutting down any suggestions that anyone to the left of Starmer might have something to contribute.
1. Corbyn is a longstanding principled anti-racist.
2. He has tolerated people with dogshit "anti-imperialist" student politics too much because of their shared time together in the lefty wilderness.
3. He failed to deal with the accusations of anti-semitism comprehensively and his cack handed equivocations of "all racisms matter" were idiotic.
4. His opponents inside the party sabotaged his attempts to deal with this and magnified the problem.
5. His opponents outside the party weaponised the issue of anti-semitism for their own ends.
(4 and 5 are just politics. He and his team should have been prepared for this. He was too nice.)
My prediction is that when the internal investigation against Corbyn and those tainted with his politics has been concluded, anti-semitism will suddenly cease to be an issue that people talk about, except perhaps as a way of shutting down any suggestions that anyone to the left of Starmer might have something to contribute.
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shiels
_
cosign
craner
Beast of Burden
I don't know how many people here actually spent any time in Labour party constituency meetings, but I've been to a few, in Bethnal Green and Bow, Vauxhall, Cardiff West, Cardiff North and the Vale of Glamorgan. BG&B was the worst for this, but in all of them there was always a vocal contingent whose definition of left wing politics was dominated by Israel and Palestine. These were precisely the people who had a difficult time keeping a grip on their own purported distinction between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism. They were the people who considered Oona King to be the Labour Friends of Israel candidate in 2005, and yet for some reason didn't actually jump ship to Respect. They loved Corbyn. Also, a lot of the Respect people loved Corbyn and joined (or re-joined, or tried to) the Labour Party because of him. That's why the issue got worse and more visible after 2015, not because Jewish members were inventing it. It's not a bad thing at all that these people are ostentatiously ripping up their membership cards in disgust. Good.
Corbyn and his crew couldn't deal with this problem because they knew that by doing so they would be attacking their core supporters, who they agreed with anyway. It was just like Trump and the Proud Boys.
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john eden
male pale and stale
@craner I've patently never been to a Labour party constituency meeting. My experience of the sort of people you mention is that they include some people who are more nuanced than the picture you paint and some people who are absolute dickheads who should not be let loose on the general public. I think the difficulty is the centrality of the Palestinian issue as you say, which can make the whole thing become very tribal. ("Oh well yes, Colin should never have said that and he didn;t really mean it but he is a long standing supporter of the Palestinian people and he is very passionate and between you and me he does spend too much time on the internet. But we have to stick together if we are going to defeat the Tories....")
It also seems to me that there was a huge amplification of the dickheads happening on social media and that some of the dickheads were fake accounts or not actually members of the labour party.
So I believe you, but think it was a bit more complicated from where I am sitting. I certainly don't think that Jewish members were inventing it.
It also seems to me that there was a huge amplification of the dickheads happening on social media and that some of the dickheads were fake accounts or not actually members of the labour party.
So I believe you, but think it was a bit more complicated from where I am sitting. I certainly don't think that Jewish members were inventing it.