Keir Starmer

[Leo]

in the US, domestic manufacturing and sourcing is getting a renewed look not based on politics, but on supply chain issues. as the pandemic and Russian invasion disrupted global supply chains, US firms are investigating domestic manufacturing and sourcing as a way to reduce supply chain disruption. it's a move away from globalization, but driven more by business needs rather than politics.

 

[wg-]

Im not necessarily talking about manufacturing here- more like "government" services, councils or big firms outsourcing to e.g. Capita/CBRE etc- but it is all part of the same problem isnt it.

The Tories have even briefly attempted to blame the current passport office farrago on civil servants "not being at their desks" but that's been quietly retired after their own minister blamed it in front of committee on the private company that handles their documents

Everything here now is handed off to 3rd party for ease of use at the top level and the lads in charge get more and more money for doing less and less. I guess thats what happens when it's jobs for the boys who helped you lobby for the contract in the first place

Again, these aren't the things that the opposition are willing to address because they are now part of the system anyway, but the secondary privatisation model is a real hindrance in modern society.

How do you become a political consultant lol

 

[shakahislop]

It's a decline in the west certainly, with third world mass industrialisation and outsourcing. Whether we will see the same tendancy in Bangladesh or South Korea for example is up for debate, but even then its much harder to camouflage politics in the age of mass communication and connectivity.

I can say something about Bangladesh though I know it's just a random example, or at least about Bangladesh a decade ago. Garment production is a big part of the economy. It's also very concentrated in one part of Dhaka. So far as I'm aware I don't think there's any real history of unionisation in Bangladesh, or in South Asia in general (though I have no idea about India or Sri Lanka to be honest). People have tried a bit to unionise garment production in Bangladesh but it hasn't worked. It's just too easy to murder people, there's a huge amount of money involved, and the state is very concerned with maintaining the garment production industry for various reasons. I don't think you can think of Bangladesh in terms of the European / US history of unionisation. It's just a categorically different situation.

 

[shakahislop]

Sure, but how much of that extra spending is A) not linked, directly or indirectly, either to Brexit or the pandemic, and B) how much of it has benefited ordinary people?

I don't think there's any extra spending. They just stopped cutting. When the Tories won in 2015 that was very much thier stated trajectory, they were going all in on continuing the austerity project. Corbyn (and of course other things) coincides with them deciding to stop all of that.

 

[thirdform]

I can say something about Bangladesh though I know it's just a random example, or at least about Bangladesh a decade ago. Garment production is a big part of the economy. It's also very concentrated in one part of Dhaka. So far as I'm aware I don't think there's any real history of unionisation in Bangladesh, or in South Asia in general (though I have no idea about India or Sri Lanka to be honest). People have tried a bit to unionise garment production in Bangladesh but it hasn't worked. It's just too easy to murder people, there's a huge amount of money involved, and the state is very concerned with maintaining the garment production industry for various reasons. I don't think you can think of Bangladesh in terms of the European / US history of unionisation. It's just a categorically different situation.

Certainly that is the case, although yellow unions are a big thing in the global south. the UK history of unionisation is actually an outlier in this sense.

 

[DannyL]

Certainly that is the case, although yellow unions are a big thing in the global south. the UK history of unionisation is actually an outlier in this sense.

In what sense? Don't quite follow you there. The UK is an outlier in "deunionising" are you saying?

 

[IdleRich]

I'm reading that Starmer is saying (or will say) that if fined he will resign. In terms of party politics, just neutrally seeing it as "the great game" or some such, it seems like a good move doesn't it?

Two possibilities really

a) He doesn't get fined - which seems fairly likely as, from the scant attention I've paid, I understand the rule was not in place at the time - but his willingness to do the right thing will increase the pressure on his opposite number who has been fined and may be fined again.

b) He does get fined and resigns which you would think ought to make Johnson's position - as someone who has done worse, many times - untenable.

Basically for those who like party politics and enjoy watching this kind of stuff as if it were I Claudius or Game of Thrones then it looks like a brilliant move - one that has taken a concerted attack from the Tories and their allies in the press on his honesty and ethics, along with political pressure on the police, and used it to actually strengthen his claim to these qualities while further exposing Johnson's complete lack of same.

For those who feel that an MP ought to be someone who believes in something and fights to make it happen then perhaps it's not quite so important. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if, amongst his enemies on the left, it simply augmented the idea of him as a bloodless, calculating career politician who has no particular belief in what Labour is supposed to stand for...

 

[vershy versh]

b) He does get fined and resigns which you would think ought to make Johnson's position - as someone who has done worse, many times - untenable.

It doesn't work like that though, does it? Look at Al Franken in the US. He resigned with that in mind and the Republicans just carried on as normal.

 

[john eden]

If he doesn’t get fined he will still be hounded about this.

Johnson will never resign.

This weird credulity about “fair play” is hilarious.

 

[IdleRich]

It doesn't work like that though, does it? Look at Al Franken in the US. He resigned with that in mind and the Republicans just carried on as normal.

Yeah I'm sure that Johnson will too, that's why I said "you would think ought to make his position untenable" rather than "would make his position untenable". I have mentioned several times lately how one of the defining things about the party politics of this era is how Johnson/Trump both realised that norms and conventions are toothless and unenforceable, and as a result they ignore them when they are inconvenient and don't resign even when busted many times doing things which would have ended any political career in the past.

That said, if the papers all made a huge thing about Starmer being a hypocrite and bayed for his head for doing this.... and then he did resign, effectively for just about doing something which we all knew that Johnson did many times and much worse, then it would be a clear and staggering example of hypocrisy on the part of all the right-wing rags and also Johnson himself. One that would be particularly hard to ignore precisely cos the tabloids have spent so much time and energy shouting about it so loudly. I also think that Johnson would face significant criticism from within his own party if that was what happened. That's why I was saying it was a good tactical move on Starmer's part - he looks like skilfully deflecting a massive coordinated attack on him so that the pressure ends up on Johnson. But, yeah, it does involve a potential queen sacrifice... something I'm fairly sanguine about but which more ardent Starmer supporters may not be.

I think that the Tories belatedly realised that they may be creating a rod for their own back - I read earlier (with the usual provisos as to whether or not it's true) that they had issued an edict ordering MPs in interviews not to say that Starmer should resign (as even the dumbest viewer would likely see that that would equally be a call for Johnson to do the same) but rather just to call him a hypocrite and concentrate on insulting him without suggesting any actual consequences.

 

[Leo]

Johnson's complete lack of shame.

fixed it for you.

 

[DannyL]

One positive if he does resign it opens up the possibility of Labour doing something crazy like electing female leader - Lisa Nandy maybe?

 

[IdleRich]

This is it... to me it's a move that has no particular downside, but people who love Starmer and see him as the future of the party and the only hope for the country might take issue with me there.

 

[Mr. Tea]

You'd surely have to be debilitatingly naive to think Johnson would do anything, let alone resign, out of "shame" or because it was in any sense the "right thing to do"...

But the desperation from the Tories is palpable. Their latest gambit is the shocking revelation that Labour had planned to hold a big Christmas party when such things were still allowed, but then cancelled their plans after big indoor gatherings were made illegal.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Tfw to intelligent

 

[IdleRich]

Again, I do not think that Johnson will resign. I am just saying that even by the standards of the cancer-wife-cheating-on-public-funds-misappropriating-massive-tit-growing-country-destroying-unable-to-dress-himself-dickhead it would be a pretty shocking act of hypocrisy and one that due to the noise the tabloids have made, it's one that even the least switched on should notice. Just another, rather large, in fact fucking massive, straw on the already straining camel's back.

 

[subvert47]

Whatever happens, this episode has underlined the fatal weaknesses of his operation. His team has avoided making the argument for transformative policies, which this country vitally needs, because even if they believed them to be politically desirable they fear that doing so will invite a media onslaught. But it didn’t matter; the press has unleashed mayhem on him anyway.

Starmer gambled Labour’s fortunes on his integrity – no wonder he’s in deep trouble | Owen Jones

Focusing on honesty and decency was always going to be a thin strategy, says Guardian columnist Owen Jones

www.theguardian.com

 

[subvert47]

 

[Mr. Tea]

Has 'Owen Jones' entered the lexicon as a pejorative term yet?

Something like "Oh don't be such an Owen Jones".

 

[thirdform]

Certainly that is the case, although yellow unions are a big thing in the global south. the UK history of unionisation is actually an outlier in this sense.

well, you don't have unions run by organised crime firms in the UK. @DannyL