luka

Well-known member
yes

the chilling effect
as Luke was saying
Isnt this the old political correctness gone mad argument?

All you're left with is cant and the distance between what is said publicly and what is believed, grows ever larger. There was, as I understand it, a similar atmosphere in the eighties. (Political correctness gone mad). The left grows hysterical and shrill whenever a Trump or a Thatcher is around.
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty


we should invite him along to discuss

would be great


looking at that wikipedia page, they are not that strong though are they?

not particularly, no. i guess my point is the rabidity of the mob, which i have to agree with padraig, doesn't seem all that easy to use with accuracy.

i got a lot out of this interview with ronson, though:


which really brought the whole concept home to me, having never really given it any thought before then, back in 2015. they talk about a bunch of things but the shaming book is the main focus. 5 years is a long time in internet time. i'm sure it would be a much heavier read if it was written now. one interesting tidbit: public shaming was phased out over a century ago because it was deemed too inhumane.
 

entertainment

Well-known member
The left grows hysterical and shrill whenever a Trump or a Thatcher is around.

It's the enemy image, the force of pure evil, justifies everything with moral absolutism. No rules, no ideals, no principles matter, only the defeating the enemy.
 

version

Well-known member
It's the enemy image, the force of pure evil, justifies everything with moral absolutism. No rules, no ideals, no principles matter, only the defeating the enemy.
That's one of Matt Taibbi's "Ten Rules of Hate".

9. IN THE FIGHT AGAINST HITLER, EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED. (“If the other side is literally Hitler, this eventually has to happen. It would be illogical to argue anything else. What began as America vs. America will eventually move to Traitor vs. Traitor, and the show does not work if those contestants are not offended to the point of wanting to kill one another.”)
 

version

Well-known member
Here's the full ten:

1. THERE ARE ONLY TWO IDEAS – Republican and Democrat, liberal and conservative. Boolean political identities.
2. THE TWO IDEAS ARE IN PERMANENT CONFLICT
3. HATE PEOPLE, NOT INSTITUTIONS
4. EVERYTHING IS SOMEONE ELSE’S FAULT (“The overwhelming majority of “controversial news stories” involve simple partisan narratives cleaved quickly into hot-button talking points. Go any deeper and you zoom off the flow chart”).
5. NOTHING IS EVERYONE’S FAULT (“If both parties have an equal or near-equal hand in causing a social problem, we typically don’t cover it.”)
6. ROOT, DON’T THINK (“By the early 2000s, TV stations had learned to cover politics exactly as they covered sports, a proven profitable format. The presidential election especially was reconfigured into a sports coverage saga.”)
7. NO SWITCHING TEAMS (“Being out of touch with what the other side is thinking is now no longer seen as a fault. It’s a requirement.”)
8. THE OTHER SIDE IS LITERALLY HITLER
9. IN THE FIGHT AGAINST HITLER, EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED. (“If the other side is literally Hitler, this eventually has to happen. It would be illogical to argue anything else. What began as America vs. America will eventually move to Traitor vs. Traitor, and the show does not work if those contestants are not offended to the point of wanting to kill one another.”)
10. FEEL SUPERIOR. (“We’re mainly in the business of stroking audiences. We want them coming back. Anger is part of the rhetorical promise, but so are feelings righteousness and superiority.”)
 

entertainment

Well-known member
That's one of Matt Taibbi's "Ten Rules of Hate".

9. IN THE FIGHT AGAINST HITLER, EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED. (“If the other side is literally Hitler, this eventually has to happen. It would be illogical to argue anything else. What began as America vs. America will eventually move to Traitor vs. Traitor, and the show does not work if those contestants are not offended to the point of wanting to kill one another.”)

explains the existence of anti-fa and their quixotic conjuring of fascism on every corner of the culture and treating it like some dark magic force that instantly corrupts every mind it's exposed to
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
To risk speaking in blanket terms, which, while suffering a loss of robustness, allows one to approximate the higher-order vantage points. This trade-off is reconcilable to a degree, I believe, but its always there.

Would we consider a cancellation to be a socio-professional execution, or a socio-professional incarceration? That is, in general terms, is there a point of recovery/absolution? Or has cancel culture / accountability culture not endured long enough to determine such?

One cancels something they don't want to continue, for whatever reason. To the extent that MeToo manages to cast down those who have been using their power to levy sexual favors, they can be said to be cancelled, no?

And it makes sense that if your supporter-base consists largely of people that go unaffected by public cancellations, you would be more or less exempt from being canceled, no?

One point that, I think, has been made here, by sufi and others I believe, is that "cancel culture" (I love my distancing marks) is far from being efficient in its indictments and priorities, but it is still a powerful means of bottom-up accounting. The snag is that, arguably, those who are most in need of accounting are those who can survive without the support of whoever is rallying behind such change.

The only way, seemingly, to "reach" these unaccountable people is for the atmosphere of "cancel culture" to become even more excited, which would almost necessarily by-produce a greater, more palpable sensation of public censure and expressive regulation. I don't want to solidify this equation too much, but it seems like, in order to achieve higher-profile true-positives, there will also be more lower-profile false-positives.
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
Playing with fire. The orgiastic mindstate of the raging mob. Frenzied, frothing masses.

You can't topple the top. Just isn't going to. They're waiting for you. Boobie traps set. Think the militarization of the police was to protect proles? Wait and see. Within our lifetime. Foregone.

Easy.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I see things carried on a bit after I went to bed last night.

@sufi , have you got any updates on your position for us? Which, as far as I could tell, is: "People losing their jobs for having an incorrect opinion never happens, and is always justified when it does."
 

luka

Well-known member
It's a way to find a socially acceptable respectable even laudable way to channel your aggressive instincts and sadism.
 
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luka

Well-known member
Given we are all snarling aggressive biting stoats and weasels finding happy ways to channel those instincts is one of the overriding problems every society has to grapple with
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
The outspoken homophobic colonel in American Beauty who ends up turning out to be gay. You keep going on about something like that it starts to look a bit suspicious, innit.
 
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