sus
Moderator
Yes. And also that "truth," in the sense Op meant, is not "truth" in the sense Tea means. (Emotional sincerity vs. scientific accuracy.)
Election 2020
wild greens
Well-known member
Still a nonce though
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
OK, so that's one time. Maybe there were a couple of others. That certainly doesn't add up to "most of what he said was true", by a long chalk.
My gut feeling is he was relatively blunt and honest about stuff like trade and geopolitics and that most of the stuff he wasn't honest about isn't going to look that important in the future, e.g. bullshitting about how many people were at his inauguration.
His biggest crime in the eyes of the establishment appears to me to have been one of personality and etiquette. They didn't like that he was rude and obnoxious and blurted out the stuff a president's supposed to keep to themselves and be diplomatic about, like saying an ally's taking the piss or a trade deal's crap.
His biggest crime in the eyes of the establishment appears to me to have been one of personality and etiquette. They didn't like that he was rude and obnoxious and blurted out the stuff a president's supposed to keep to themselves and be diplomatic about, like saying an ally's taking the piss or a trade deal's crap.
sus
Moderator
Stop being dense on purpose Tea. The point is that people are sick of politicians and for good reason, with their constant false pathos, the speech which leaves their mouths literally written by other people. Every utterance focus-grouped like a can of Pepsi. Politician as consumer product. Politician as actor in an opticratic world.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Much of it was, for want of a better word, trolling, I think. All those offhand whoppers about bleach curing covid or wind turbines causing cancer - the sort of thing you'd have to be pretty much brain-damaged to believe - are said more to "trigger liberals" than anything else. He loves the idea of journalists at NYT or CNN spluttering "He can't say that!", and he knows his fans love it, too.
I think the more serious bullshit he's come out with, about the Democrats supposedly trying to fix the election and whatnot, actually was intended to deceive, and clearly has deceived a lot of people.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Oh wow bro, you mean modern politics is in some sense a bit like regular entertainment? This is pretty ground-breaking stuff, you should probably write a really important book about it.
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sus
Moderator
Not claiming it's groundbreaking and I'm not claiming it's modern and I'm not claiming it's "a bit like" entertainment, learn to read.
I'm inverting the usual liberal take on Trump, which is as bullshit artist, and suggesting we understand him as his followers understand him: as sincere. It isn't unknown, to liberals, that Forever Trumpers feel this way. It's just discounted—they're cast as "suckers" who "vote against their own rational interest."
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
No
He saddled up to right wing nutters, repeatedly, to justify his agenda. Not a one off. Not in isolation. Not to be “anti-establishment”. When the psychopaths descended on VA he couldn’t even bring himself to condemn nazi cunts operating openly
That’s a pattern and a disgrace, even by American standards
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I honestly cannot be fucked playing these clever (or "clever") games where what is "true" has to be distinguished from what is true.
(It's normally your cue about now to tell me to read some philosopher or other, as if that constitutes some fantastic gotcha in itself.)
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
He* was trying to convince me the other night that no significant number of Trump voters were racists...
*Gus
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No, I wasn't. That was Gus.
This doesn't really feel like a direct response to what I was saying.
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
Feels good man
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
It's Gus I was referring to! I know you would never said anything demonstrably crazy like that.
Edit: crossed wires - I see that WYH quoted your post, but it felt like his post was more a direct reply to Gus.
You responded to WYH who was responding to me though.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Uh, exactly.
That was in response to WYH quoting me though.
Leo
Well-known member
emotional sincerity can be could be considered a form of honesty (someone who is honest about their feelings), but that is very different from truth, in any sense. sometimes people are emotionally sincere about things that are completely untrue.
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My general point was it seems more important to the American establishment who's doing something than what it is they're doing and I think they had a bigger problem with Trump the man than they did with his policies.
You look at something like the ongoing situation at the Mexico–US border with people still being detained under Biden and the response in contrast to when it was happening under Trump is pretty stark. A lot of people just don't really talk about it that much anymore. It's not a big story now. It's like when Fox kept harping on about the dreaded migrant caravan until it miraculously disappeared once it stopped being useful to them.
You look at something like the ongoing situation at the Mexico–US border with people still being detained under Biden and the response in contrast to when it was happening under Trump is pretty stark. A lot of people just don't really talk about it that much anymore. It's not a big story now. It's like when Fox kept harping on about the dreaded migrant caravan until it miraculously disappeared once it stopped being useful to them.
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