'Postmodernism' as Existential Threat.

[padraig (u.s.)]

do you think that all ppl are equally deserving of life?

as blank slates - i.e. at birth - yes

but I don't think there's any universal answer to what form that life should take

 

[luka]

this is exactly why postmodernism is an existential threat. because we can't find any valid reason to impose our will and our values on the world at large.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

embrace relativism in which case there is no argument against slavery, FGM, etc

to deny univeralism isn't to say everything is equally meaningless

 

[constant escape]

you can either embrace relativism in which case there is no argument against slavery, FGM, etc or you find a valid basis for universalism. its that simple.

Maybe I'm needlessly hung up on this, but I think the primary way to prevent those things is to redirect the energies that would otherwise express themselves as such phenomena.

And ultimately if we can't sate the paedos and mutilators, at least we will have sated everyone else. So its largely in the interest of unification despite ideological difference, save for some intense few. Aim for 100% to achieve maximum potential, no?

 

[luka]

Maybe I'm needlessly hung up on this, but I think the primary way to prevent those things is to redirect the energies that would otherwise express themselves as such phenomena.

And ultimately if we can't sate the paedos and mutilators, at least we will have sated everyone else. So its largely in the interest of unification despite ideological difference, save for some intense few. Aim for 100% to achieve maximum potential, no?

you mean achieve a general and not a universal buy-in?

 

[constant escape]

Yeah I'd be more interested in achieving a fabric that enables different ideologies to maximize their dialectical potential.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

we can't find any valid reason to impose our will and our values on the world at large

it's a very depressing thought to realize that civilized human history is an endless succession of conquerors imposing their values

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

obv it's not hard to argue that the failure - rather than one of will - has been trying too hard to "impose our values on the world at large"

that's essentially been the metadebate in U.S. foreign policy since Vietnam

 

[constant escape]

it's a very depressing thought to realize that civilized human history is an endless succession of conquerors imposing their values

Yeah I think some of these problems can only be solved from higher realms, and so it would be a matter of cognizing some sufficient analog/model of a higher order, and then learning from it, I suppose.

Otherwise, we're stuck down here with periodic tsunamis of shit.

 

[luka]

obv it's not hard to argue that the failure - rather than one of will - has been trying too hard to "impose our values on the world at large"

that's essentially been the metadebate in U.S. foreign policy since Vietnam

as i say this carries over into live political questions primarily danny l's interventionism

 

[constant escape]

obv it's not hard to argue that the failure - rather than one of will - has been trying too hard to "impose our values on the world at large"

that's essentially been the metadebate in U.S. foreign policy since Vietnam

I would say that the will is usually if not always insufficient, but also that imposing your values will only roundaboutly sow the seeds for the opposite. So perhaps the approach taken is one that cannot be opposed, one that subsumes all possible positions. What that'll look like, I don't know - but I'm not convinced its impossible.

 

[luka]

but we do very much want to abolish slavery, for instance, we do not want to give up these universals. so we are in a very real quandry we need to think our way out of

 

[luka]

i think there is a way. i think it can be done and i think the key is.....

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

some of these problems can only be solved from higher realms

I admire your doggedness in returning everything to some kind of God of emergent properties

and I mean, good luck with it, that hypertechnocratic approach - if only you know enough, or unlock the right understanding, you can solve it all

where for me history demonstrates that there are always unknown unknowns

 

[constant escape]

but we do very much want to abolish slavery, for instance, we do not want to give up these universals. so we are in a very real quandry we need to think our way out of

That is the central knot, as far as I can tell. I think the only way to solidify certain values, namely egalitarian ones, is a sort of faith that the final product will involve their reconciliation with opposing energies, rather than their destruction by opposing energies.

Like the optimal ideological permutation does involve position-taking, but a certain balance of values that resembles a sort of inter-ideological potluck.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

interventionism

it's very tough

the reality to me is, there will never be a universal answer, you'll always have to use your best judgment and you'll never be sure you made the right decision. that's part of what it is to be human.

 

[luka]

bottom up information flows

 

[constant escape]

where for me history demonstrates that there are always unknown unknowns

Yeah I think this hits at the same point about the new being cognizable only through some lense of old, and to assume that it is finally figured out is to secure the same mistake, again and again.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

the existence of doubt and existential anxiety are in themselves a refutation of universalism

this is what Camus, de Beauvoir, etc were trying to reconcile

 

[constant escape]

Thats why I opt for an eternal progress, perpetually submitting to, or drawn toward, both the known unknown and the unknown unknown,