A Brooklyn Culture Mafia

[Leo]

yeah, maybe your football is more physical. it wasn't a scientific survey.

 

[Leo]

although hockey is the only team sport where fist fights occur, usually only getting the culprits a five minute penalty before they are back out on the ice.

 

[IdleRich]

but some of those elaborate dunks are all psychological, about sending a messages to the opponent. when Lebron slams one down right in an opponent's face and then stares at him, that's about dominating the other team and crushing their spirit.

Yeah but it's not as good as actually taking them out of the game is it? It's just going like "if I'm certain to score I'm gonna really take the piss when I do it" rather than "I'm gonna score whatever you do".

 

[IdleRich]

I once read that man-for-man in terms of playing time and pounds of protecting equipment, basketball is the most physical team spot. you'd think it would be American football, where they smashing into and tackle one another, but a football play runs for a few seconds and then play stops, you have half the players go off the field for awhile since they play only on offense or defense, and they have pounds of protective pads and helmets.

whereas basketball players are constantly running up and down the court for both offenses and defense, there is no stop in play after each score, and they wear literally not protective padding. more equivalent to non-americas football, except each team in that sport has a goalie who just stands in front of the goal and doesn't move much for probably 90% of the match.

Do they play for the whole game though or do they switch lines or whatever? I mean ice-hockey they go super fast and they carry all that weight around but they swap half the players every three minutes.
Squash is often said to be the most demanding I dunno but it's not like getting punched in the face (unless your opponent is particularly vicious or inept).

 

[WashYourHands]

@Leo Stick Gordon Tallis or Adrian Morley into YT. And that’s just rugby league, both codes have a tendency for confrontation of an uncompromising variety.

Music of (jfc). Anyway I’m off out for a row

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I thought basketball was huge in europe?

really varies by country. it's huge in Mediterranean countries - especially Spain and Greece - and most of Eastern Europe - especially the Baltic countries (or really just Lithuania) and the Balkans - but much lower-profile in Northern Europe, besides France, and virtually non-existent in the UK.

the geographical distribution of basketball is actually something I've spent probably too much time in my life thinking about, as much of it doesn't really make intuitive sense. why Lithuania but not Latvia or Estonia? why Argentina instead of, say Mexico? I'd be curious to read a history if one exists somewhere.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I grew up religiously watching/playing basketball, stopped paying attention to sports for awhile (fortuitously coinciding w/that late 90s-early 00s stretch when the NBA devolved into miserable 70-68 wrestling matches) then rekindled a pretty intense fandom that has petered out in the last couple years. it's partially stylistic disinterest - high scoring in the analytics-driven post-Harden style of endless 3s and foul shots is in its own way as monotonous as the low-scoring late 90s drudgery - partially not wanting to put energy into following the year-round mix of salary cap minutiae and Shakespearean drama of alliance-forming and maneuvering that is basically a prequisite of modern NBA fandom, and partially just that the entire idea of professional sports as the world is figuratively and literally burning seems ever more increasingly absurd and pointless.

perhaps @Linebaugh + co. can re-rekindle my interest this season. if I was going to suck it up and follow any sport it would certainly be basketball. I do love the game itself - a LeBron or Luka Doncic almost literally performing magic - it's just become very difficult to ignore everything else.

 

[IdleRich]

But this is interesting distinction to me between US and, probably rest-of-the-world, sports, the way they swap players so much. So I guess that that means at any moment you're more likely to see the game being played at full speed by players who are relatively rested and who are absolutely specialised to their role... maybe spectators like that more (though personally I like to see a knackered defender blowing out of his arse coming up for a late free-kick as a last throw of the dice) but as a player it's kinda disappointing isn't it? You're hardly on the pitch, not cos there is a guy better than you but cos that's the way the game works.

 

[WashYourHands]

Olympic Basketball & The Grateful Dead

sportshistoryweekly.com

 

[Leo]

there are substitutes in basketball but the key players will be on the court for the majority of the game.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

what's weird to me is how in football someone does a piece of skill to beat a man or whatever, makes sense... in basketball you got a guy gonna score for sure and then he does some elaborate dunk and that's the highlight. It doesn't gain anything, just looks good... it's kinda like figure skating or sonething.

rich come on, I expect this kind of nonsense take from luka for bantz/needling purposes, but that's ridiculous

it just looks that way to you bc you don't know anything about basketball, the same way I find soccer (fine, football) interminably boring

basketball is one of the most skilled - I won't say the most - sports on Earth. the dunk itself is (mostly) athleticism - tho elaborate dunks are usually for dunk contests, not in-game - but most of what it takes to get to the dunk is the individual skill of players, especially the primary ball handler (guy dribbling) and the overall offense - guys moving, passing, setting screens, etc in order to create the opening in the defense that leads to the dunk. the NBA requires a very high athleticism/height baseline but beyond that baseline tactics and skill are both very important.

 

[Leo]

college basketball can be more exciting than watching NBA games, a bunch of young kids playing their hearts out for school pride and/or future professional prospects as opposed to a bunch of bored multi-millionaires in the pros who just trade a succession of 30-foot jump shots.

 

[pattycakes_]

rich is way off the mark here. it's amazing to me how close the scores are in basketball nowadays. literally a few baskets separating the teams at the final buzzer. and it's an incredibly stylish and graceful game. except yeah, now like so many sports it's all scientific and moneyed. 90s NBA was doooope

nba jam was my intro. larry johnson, alonzo mourning and 5 foot 3 muggsy bogues era charlotte hornets were my team. their teal shirt & logo was the shit. a friend went to florida one year and i asked him to bring me a jersey - brought back the fucking purple away johnson. gutted.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

at any moment you're more likely to see the game being played at full speed by players who are relatively rested and who are absolutely specialised to their role

there are defensive or offensive (really, shooting) specialists but especially in today's NBA you have to be at least reasonably capable at both or you're essentially unplayable because other teams will ruthlessly exploit any weakness, especially in the playoffs.

and the NBA season is brutal even for world-level athletes. I remember Dwayne Wade saying he'd lose about 5 lbs in water weight during a game. and it's not as bad as the NFL bc nothing really is but basketball still eats dudes' knees, backs, etc.

 

[Leo]

btw, I love how this thread has evolved. Will the Brooklyn Nets pull it together with Kyrie and a healthy Kevin Durant?

 

[IdleRich]

there are substitutes in basketball but the key players will be on the court for the majority of the game.

Ah ok, so it's more like footie in that respect. American Football is totally specialised and ice hockey sort of in-between?
In football if you take someone off you can't put them back on... maybe that's strange, it would change things up a bit if you were allowed rolling subs like that. I mean when I play five-a-side and twelve turn up then we sub people on and off, but in a game sometimes they take off the striker and bring on a defender to protect a slender lead... and then the other team score and you're fucked, would be different if you could unrest the player you'd removed.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

college basketball can be more exciting than watching NBA games, a bunch of young kids playing their hearts out for school pride and/or future professional prospects as opposed to a bunch of bored multi-millionaires in the pros who just trade a succession of 30-foot jump shots.

Leo much love to you but I absolutely refute that narrative, it's a v tired one that Play the Right Way types trot out (or used to, even for them it's basically passe). college basketball just looks like that bc 1) the players aren't as physically gifted so it looks like they're "trying harder" vs NBA players who make it seem effortless and 2) college kids in the stands (pre-pandemic) going nuts bc they're college kids. also I agree endless 30-footers can be boring but dudes shoot them bc analytics says they're a good idea, not out of listlessness or boredom.

you or anyone may find college basketball more exciting, but this scrappy kids vs listless pros narrative, no

 

[IdleRich]

rich come on, I expect this kind of nonsense take from luka for bantz/needling purposes, but that's ridiculous

it just looks that way to you bc you don't know anything about basketball, the same way I find soccer (fine, football) interminably boring

basketball is one of the most skilled - I won't say the most - sports on Earth. the dunk itself is (mostly) athleticism - tho elaborate dunks are usually for dunk contests, not in-game - but most of what it takes to get to the dunk is the individual skill of players, especially the primary ball handler (guy dribbling) and the overall offense - guys moving, passing, setting screens, etc in order to create the opening in the defense that leads to the dunk. the NBA requires a very high athleticism/height baseline but beyond that baseline tactics and skill are both very important.

I dunno man, I remember we went through this before and you said (if I remember) that dunks are "the blackest thing ever" which has some kind of resonance. But sure I appreciate the skill in getting to the point, I'm just saying the highlight that they show tends to focus on the dunk. But that's the tv not the game.
Let me be clear, all top level involve top level skills and (specialised) fitness for that sport. Which may not translate to others of course.
Remember my friend from US saying that he went for a walk with his girlfriend and the linebacker (is it?) from the team up a mountain, and the guy from the team was really struggling to walk with them, cos he was only used to running in spurts I guess.

 

[IdleRich]

Cycling seems to me the most psychotic of sports... what they put themselves through in the big events is just crazy.

 

[IdleRich]

btw, I love how this thread has evolved. Will the Brooklyn Nets pull it together with Kyrie and a healthy Kevin Durant?

I was thinking it's become a lot more interesting.