WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
It can’t be eradicated and a vaccine resistant strain is semi-inevitable....



Antibiotic resistant gonorrhoea is out there, you wonder if the medical era we were brought up in is subsiding quickly
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
It is, but I'm saying there are people still labouring under the assumption it can be eradicated when we don't really know that.

Also, I'm not arguing the vaccine's bunk because people may still be catching the virus. You've created a strawman to point to as a strawman. I'm arguing that if vaccinated people are still spreading the virus then it weakens the argument in favour of vaccine mandates because it's partly based on the assumption that vaccination prevents the spread.
I've lost count of the accusations and counter-accusations of strawmanism at this point, but anyway: who is it that's assuming "vaccination prevents the spread"? And who is it that's propagating this idea? Everything I've seen in the media about this has almost been at pains to point out that vaccination reduces your chances of catching this or that variant by however many percent. It's not saying "Get vaxxed, become invulnerable."

Again, the fact of vaccines not being 100% effective on an individual level totally ignores the fact that vaccines are not intended to work only the individual, and that some people have a good medical reason for not being vaccinated.
 

version

Well-known member
It can’t be eradicated and a vaccine resistant strain is semi-inevitable....
Antibiotic resistant gonorrhoea is out there, you wonder if the medical era we were brought up in is subsiding quickly
I've heard antibacterial sprays and the like which claim to kill "99.9% of bacteria" may weaken our immune systems as we end up being exposed to fewer things which keep them hardened.

There seems to be a general sense of panic whenever we struggle to completely prevent or control things. You can see it with Covid, Afghanistan, the response to various political outcomes. It's like Peter Thiel pumping more and more money into preventing his own death. If we just believe and keep throwing resources at things then we never have to consider or plan for a possibility other than total success.
 

version

Well-known member
I've lost count of the accusations and counter-accusations of strawmanism at this point, but anyway: who is it that's assuming "vaccination prevents the spread"? And who is it that's propagating this idea? Everything I've seen in the media about this has almost been at pains to point out that vaccination reduces your chances of catching this or that variant by however many percent. It's not saying "Get vaxxed, become invulnerable."

Again, the fact of vaccines not being 100% effective on an individual level totally ignores the fact that vaccines are not intended to work only the individual, and that some people have a good medical reason for not being vaccinated.
Well, that's the only time I've ever used the term in this discussion as I make a point of not using it, so you can note down a single use of "strawman" from me.

The people assuming vaccination prevents the spread are the people placing the blame for the ongoing situation at the feet of the unvaccinated and the unvaccinated only, people like the writer of that Salon article I posted the headline from and members of the public (or perhaps bots? - which raises a whole different issue) on social media.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
You keep saying that as though I'm arguing things can never be eradicated when what I'm saying is we have to consider the possibility that not everything can be eradicated.
Sounded a lot like you were saying it was definitely impossible and therefore shouldn't even be attempted.
 

version

Well-known member
Sounded a lot like you were saying it was definitely impossible and therefore shouldn't even be attempted.
I'm arguing we might have to accept we can't eradicate it after almost two years and God knows how much money attempting to. I wasn't arguing this before that attempt.
 

Leo

Well-known member
It is, but I'm saying there are people still labouring under the assumption it can be eradicated when we don't really know that.

and I guess what I'm saying is those people are wrong, they've always been wrong, and their incorrect views aren't the criteria to judge success.
 
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