the emperor’s new clothes

[Clinamenic]

That being said, it helps when people frame stuff like science as description rather than explanation. It's telling you what's happening, not why it's happening.

And an approximation, at that. Rather than thinking we are actually identifying the world. I find it useful to think of science that way, as it helps stay flexible for when new theories come around, ones that would be harder to appreciate if you conflate previous theories with reality.

 

[IdleRich]

I certainly don't understand advanced mathematics (or basic mathematics really) - but is that because I'm fundamentally too thick to understand it (thick when it comes to maths, I mean), or is it because I have no interest in it, and so have never worked long and hard enough on understanding it?

It's both, stupid.

I'm pretty sure that if you didn't do maths beyond a-level then there can't have been anything on the courses that you studied that was conceptually beyond you... which points more to answer b in your rhetorical question.
But I still don't think that that is the whole story - more likely it was a perfect storm of lack of interest in that combined with strong interests in other things, plus maybe bad teaching and, I dunno, maybe you missed one thing that later topics depended on and never went back to learn it.
But no way are you or anyone else on this forum - ok possibly DannyL - fundamentally too thick for the kind of maths you're on about.

 

[IdleRich]

Ilyas = Elias?
Jibrail = Gabriel
Yacub = Jacob

That's all I can think of without looking it up.

Nice one. The middle one I have never previously spotted.

 

[Corpsey]

Nevertheless, I had schoolmates who could grasp maths very quickly that I wouldn't have grasped without lonnnng and patient explanation. Their brains had developed differently to mine.

(In the same way that some people are naturally good at sport, and not just because they're big or strong. They have quicker mental reflexes.)

And without that quick understanding, without the feeling of competence/power that gives you, there isn't much to get excited about.

So I can sympathise with Dawkins reaction here, actually. You don't understand something, you're either going to take that as a humbling experience or insist defiantly on your right to call the whole thing boring or stupid or a complete con.

 

[Corpsey]

Everybody longs to feel powerful and abhors being made to feel powerless, which is ironically one of the things Kafka wrote about. Dawkins arrogance is reminsicent of that possessed by the authoritarian figures in Kafka. The hardy, healthy, certain, brutal people.

 

[IdleRich]

Of course all the "al" words:

Alcohol
Algebra

Probably a few more.

Definitely Algebra and Algorithm are testament to the long history of Islamic maths (to tie together a few strands within this thread).
I also wonder about alcohol though, did they name it just to forbid it?
In Lisbon and in fact Portugal as a whole there are many of these names left from the occupation, just in this region from the top of my head there is; Alvalade, Alameda Alcochette, Almada and so on.... so many it's easy to get mixed up and girlfriend messed up a meeting arrangement the other day by saying she would be in Almada at nine instead of Alameda.
I remember when Alan Rushbridger was editor of the Guardian and in Private Eye they used to lump in with those kind of Islamic clerics who are opposed to western values, under the nickname "The sinister Al Rubbisher".

 

[IdleRich]

Nevertheless, I had schoolmates who could grasp maths very quickly that I wouldn't have grasped without lonnnng and patient explanation. Their brains had developed differently to mine.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in anyway denying that you might be relatively thick.
But suppose there is some concept from GCSE maths which you never got properly at the time and - who knows - you've never really thought about it since, so that is still the case, if there was a test on it sprung on you tomorrow, you would fall it completely. But that in itself in no way means that you are incapable of grasping it. In fact, I'm convinced that you are more than capable of understanding anything on the syllabus, to the extent that if someone sprang that same test on you but gave you two weeks to prepare, then you would be able to pass - in fact, I bet if you stopped wanking for a week and really got into it you would understand it inside and out and be surprised at how you didn't get it before.

 

[sufi]

I find it fascinating that somebody so obviously highly intelligent in one regard can be so thick about something else at the same time - it speaks to the sort of intelligence Dawkins has, which presumably is very logical, mechanical, intolerant of any sort of ambiguity and mystery. He needs symbolism to be along the allegorical lines of Animal Farm, where pigs = communists just as x = y.

Then again, perhaps it's more about his personality. To get where he is in life, he can't be a fundamentally lazy person - but he's lazy when it comes to things he doesn't consider worth his time. Hence his lack of engagement with theology in the writing of his atheist bestseller.

And that's another twist of the knife - his extraordinary intelligence when it comes to sciencey shit has made him too arrogant to admit he might have a blind spot.

@mr tea is like our pet dawk

 

[luka]

“There were thousands of fans in Leicester Square, the atmosphere was amazing.



“Everyone was fooling around, there was a bit of a competition to do stuff so I just thought I’d put the flare up my bum. It was the biggest day of my life apart from Chelsea versus Man City in the Champions League.”


He went on: “The flare burnt for about ten seconds or so around the cheeks, I didn’t feel a thing because I was highly intoxicated.

Yob put flare up bum, drank 20 ciders, snorted coke & then stormed Wembley

A YOB filmed putting a lit flare in his bum strolled into Wembley without a ticket after a 15-hour drink and drugs bender. Charlie Perry, 25, on Wednesday night boasted of dodging shambolic securit…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[sufi]

y

Ibn means son of I guess.. but doesn't Bin meant that too? And maybe Ben in Israel
One thing I noticed or realised or maybe I always knew but it clicked when I was teaching is how names have many kind of regional variations. Like Josef is basically Yusef and many other similar ones and Ibrahim and Abraham are the same and... so on and so forth.

yeah that is all correct

 

[version]

Dawkins went on: “The flare burnt for about ten seconds or so around the cheeks, I didn’t feel a thing because I was highly intoxicated."

 

[boxedjoy]

I got the best possible grades in my exams in 4th year of high school, the equivalent of a run of only A's at GCSE. But I'm not smart at all, really - I just learned how to recognise patterns in questions and what scripts to use as answers. So for example, I remember SOH CAH TOA being important in terms of learning how to do triangles, but I couldn't tell you what it means or how to apply it in real life. I just learned it parrot-fashion for long enough to ace an exam and then never think about it again. In Physics, I didn't understand huge swathes of what I was taught but I knew what to write as answer.

 

[sufi]

I second this, assuming sufi is even interested or feels remotely obliged to represent this.

happy to assist with arabic naming conventions - do a thread?

there are equivalents of most of what we think of as biblical character's names - our weird english versions - in arabic, as used by arabic speaking christians as well as muslims, since islam incorporates & upgrades old fashioned stuff like xtianity and judaism - why ride the donkey when you could ride toyota after all

 

[sufi]

Of course all the "al" words:

Alcohol
Algebra

Probably a few more.

raffia is the only english word derived from malagasy as far as i am aware

 

[boxedjoy]

It's why I think it's fucked up we assume people with good grades can go into top jobs - they might actually be completely useless. I was socially hopeless when I was 15 and it took me a long time to learn how the stuff they don't teach you academically in school and education.

 

[version]

It's why I think it's fucked up we assume people with good grades can go into top jobs - they might actually be completely useless. I was socially hopeless when I was 15 and it took me a long time to learn how the stuff they don't teach you academically in school and education.

Also, why it's fucked that "practical work" was presented as being for the less capable.

 

[boxedjoy]

oh 100%. A few weeks ago my washing machine seemed to be broken and flooded my kitchen. I had a plumber out cos I couldn't even begin to fathom taking the risk of trying to fix it myself. The guy had it sorted in five mins and wanted £50 for the call-out and "labour." They're the smart ones, really.

 

[version]

It's worrying how ignorant we are of a lot of the technology we depend on, also how much of the economy relies on that ignorance and our having to pay other people to help us. Imagine if everyone knew how to fix their car or rewire their house...

 

[IdleRich]

One time we had a plumber fixing some stuff at our flat and we just chatting, probably having a cup of tea (no doubt on our time) and I asked about this big black eye he had. And it turned out a couple of guys had tried to mug and basically he had fought back with everything he had cos "I'm not letting anyone take my money, it takes me too long to earn it" and I had to bit my tongue very hard not to jump in with something like "Not that long really is it, you shoulda let em have it":

 

[IdleRich]

It's worrying how ignorant we are of a lot of the technology we depend on, also how much of the economy relies on that ignorance and our having to pay other people to help us. Imagine if everyone knew how to fix their car or rewire their house...

Depends on time a lot I think. For me if something breaks now I will at least google it and see if I can find instructions or tips and see how big at job it is etc. And lots of times it is beyond me or needs a special tool or whatever but at least i try. As far as I recall I haven't got into something and then totally fucked it beyond repair yet either....