things craner will love

[IdleRich]

like they are less good at math? after 20?

It's around about thirty I think, not twenty. And it's not necessarily that they are less good, it's just that most mathematicians who achieve a major breakthrough - solve a famous problem or create a new paradigm etc - do so before they are they are thirty or thirty two or whatever it is. When they are fifty or eighty or whatever they are probably still capable of grasping all the concepts they could in their youth and applying them too, but - here I'm just speculating - maybe they lack the drive or some other necessary ingredient that must be added to that to push on and do something new. I think that the definitive reason is not known but the brute fact itself is well documented.

 

[william_kent]

It's around about thirty I think, not twenty. And it's not necessarily that they are less good, it's just that most mathematicians who achieve a major breakthrough - solve a famous problem or create a new paradigm etc - do so before they are they are thirty or thirty two or whatever it is. When they are fifty or eighty or whatever they are probably still capable of grasping all the concepts they could in their youth and applying them too, but - here I'm just speculating - maybe they lack the drive or some other necessary ingredient that must be added to that to push on and do something new. I think that the definitive reason is not known but the brute fact itself is well documented.

I'm drunk and bullshitting, but what @IdleRich says...

I was told the "20" story by a failed mathematician, who was soured & bitter

 

[IdleRich]

I guess it's possible that at 20 they are operating at a higher level but haven't studied enough of the field to come up with a breakthrough cos, if they move at the normal pace, they won't have even completed a degree by that age. I suspect most breakthroughs therefore come after twenty and I have read that very few come much after thirty. I can't think of any that were made at a younger age, even say, Von Neuman who was recognised as a genius child prodigy was I think "just" doing stuff that people had done before but better when he was that age.

Off the top of my head, the person I know who made their major work at the youngest age was Gaulois who was killed in a duel when he was 20, possibly cos he sat up all night writing out the ideas which he feared would be lost to mankind if he died - and annotated with notes moaning about the "coquette" over whom he was fighting. I guess he was a rock n roll mathematician, you don't get so many of them these days... David Foster Wallace is about the nearest I can think of if you count him as a mathematician which is a bit of a stretch.

 

[william_kent]

Off the top of my head, the person I know who made their major work at the youngest age was Gaulois who was killed in a duel when he was 20, possibly cos he sat up all night writing out the ideas which he feared would be lost to mankind if he died - and annotated with notes moaning about the "coquette" over whom he was fighting. I guess he was a rock n roll mathematician, you don't get so many of them these days... David Foster Wallace is about the nearest I can think of if you count him as a mathematician which is a bit of a stretch.

I have you to thank for, that when the word, "duel', is mentioned, I automatically think of a scene from the 'Alms for Oblivion" series - you'll know the one I mean, it's set upstairs in a Chinese restaurant in India...

 

[IdleRich]

The orgasm contest? What does he say when he comes with no semen left? Something about how the crops won't grow if there is no rain I think...
Incidentally, what is it with the orange meringue pie? They keep saying "don't eat the orange meringue" and you think it will give people a dicky tummy or something but the guy who eats it ends up dying. So are we to understand that the restaurant is serving a dish that is deadly poison, or is there something else going on? I always thought that there was something I was missing there somehow.
I absolutely loved those books and I'm very glad that you enjoyed them too @william_kent, probably I said before that I am in two minds as to whether to read the follow-up series. All the reviews say it's rubbish and it concentrates way too much on occultism and his other weird interests; and I read the first one and it's hard to argue with that conclusion. If I remember correctly the plot turns on the kid being upset about his uncircumcised penis with too tight foreskin or something... basically it was stupid. But, that said, I do just love those characters and part of me thinks I could happily wander around in their world and be immersed in their arguing, lying, fucking and so on regardless of how ridiculous the narrative is. I suppose what I'm saying here is... can you read them for me and let me know if I should bother? Please.

 

[william_kent]

The orgasm contest? What does he say when he comes with no semen left? Something about how the crops won't grow if there is no rain I think...
Incidentally, what is it with the orange meringue pie? They keep saying "don't eat the orange meringue" and you think it will give people a dicky tummy or something but the guy who eats it ends up dying. So are we to understand that the restaurant is serving a dish that is deadly poison, or is there something else going on? I always thought that there was something I was missing there somehow.
I absolutely loved those books and I'm very glad that you enjoyed them too @william_kent, probably I said before that I am in two minds as to whether to read the follow-up series. All the reviews say it's rubbish and it concentrates way too much on occultism and his other weird interests; and I read the first one and it's hard to argue with that conclusion. If I remember correctly the plot turns on the kid being upset about his uncircumcised penis with too tight foreskin or something... basically it was stupid. But, that said, I do just love those characters and part of me thinks I could happily wander around in their world and be immersed in their arguing, lying, fucking and so on regardless of how ridiculous the narrative is. I suppose what I'm saying here is... can you read them for me and let me know if I should bother? Please.

yes, the 'orgasm' contest! I seem to remember the first duel in the series is what you would expect, swords in the conventional sense but with the the Brit out foxing the dastardly German by the employment of superior anglo psychology ( pretending to be tired, etc., ), but the Indian vs Anglo orgasm contest is.. well... something else... I wasn't expecting that at all!

I saw some dismissive reviews of the follow-up series, but they didn't mention occultism or phimosis, but now that you've introduced those concepts then I'm actually highly inclined to hop on eBay or wherever and get stuck in...

 

[william_kent]

at this point in my intoxication I'm prepared to state that Simon Raven's "Alms for Oblivion" series is conceptually superior to anything James Joyce attempted - from the first novel where the main characters are completely peripheral to the main arc, to the stunning pastiches of Le Carre and Ian Flemming, the complete takedown of the Carry On films ( "Carry on Odysseus" ), the realisation that the heroic "captain" is a complete fraud and abject coward, the unweaving of the tapestry of time, the non-linearity of the sequence... simply amazing... @IdleRich, I can't thank you enough for the recommendation

 

[IdleRich]

yes, the 'orgasm' contest! I seem to remember the first duel in the series is what you would expect, swords in the conventional sense but with the the Brit out foxing the dastardly German by the employment of superior anglo psychology ( pretending to be tired, etc., ), but the Indian vs Anglo orgasm contest is.. well... something else... I wasn't expecting that at all!

I saw some dismissive reviews of the follow-up series, but they didn't mention occultism or phimosis, but now that you've introduced those concepts then I'm actually highly inclined to hop on eBay or wherever and get stuck in...

But didn't it turn out that he was drawn into the sword fight so it could be used to kick him out of the army at a later date or something? It was all a set-up basically... right down to his victory if I'm remembering tt correctly.

 

[william_kent]

But didn't it turn out that he was drawn into the sword fight so it could be used to kick him out of the army at a later date or something? It was all a set-up basically.

yes

the whole series is so intricately plotted that as soon as I finished the final volume I thought to myself that I need to read them all again

 

[IdleRich]

There's certainly an awful lot to it. It was the characters that I particularly liked... the way they almost always do the worst thing and let people down and generally behave worse than your already low opinion of them would have predicated.

 

[IdleRich]

We have digressed quite a bit into these books here but I genuinely believe that Craner would enjoy them so it's actually appropriate to the thread than a lot of the stuff in here.

 

[luka]

I guess he was a rock n roll mathematician, you don't get so many of them these days... David Foster Wallace is about the nearest I can think of if you count him as a mathematician which is a bit of a stretch.
You're too modest Rich

 

[Leo]

Don't most people peak before thirty though? I mean sportsmen and women of course....

rich cancelled!

 

[Leo]

 

[jenks]

There's certainly an awful lot to it. It was the characters that I particularly liked... the way they almost always do the worst thing and let people down and generally behave worse than your already low opinion of them would have predicated.

I’ve read most of these but am thinking that a proper systematic re-read might well be my next project (once I’ve finished my current project)

 

[woops]

I’ve read most of these but am thinking that a proper systematic re-read might well be my next project (once I’ve finished my current project)

i'm tempted by rich's review as well.

 

[IdleRich]

i'm tempted by rich's review as well.

You'll love it mate, it''s a perfect sleazy companion to A Dance to the Music of Time.

 

[luka]

he'll love this

 

[luka]

 

[luka]

choose your own adventure!