The Uyghurs

[luka]

We're trying to have a conversation here tea, no offence

 

[Mr. Tea]

We're trying to have a conversation here tea, no offence

Hey, I was on the verge of making you a nice Ian Paisley meme with that line about "problem tribes" - don't make me regret not doing it!

 

[Clinamenic]

Then you add in the propensity of foreign states to use your restless natives against you

Russian intel actors seem to exert influence in almost every region of the ideological fabric of the US, fanning the flames of the culture war with rhetoric bots, etc.

 

[william kent]

Russian intel actors seem to exert influence in almost every region of the ideological fabric of the US, fanning the flames of the culture war with rhetoric bots, etc.

That and the idea of them. I suppose that would fall under their influence though.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Anyway, my point is that it's not necessary for a group to have some special or archaic lifestyle (which the Uyghur don't, in any case) for them to constitute a 'problem'.

 

[Clinamenic]

Russian intel actors seem to exert influence in almost every region of the ideological fabric of the US, fanning the flames of the culture war with rhetoric bots, etc.

Again here I am stating what is presented as an established opinion in the US intel community. Interviews with former CIA and DNI heads, etc.

 

[Clinamenic]

That and the idea of them. I suppose that would fall under their influence though.

Sorry, the idea of what?

 

[luka]

Anyway, my point is that it's not necessary for a group to have some special or archaic lifestyle (which the Uyghur don't, in any case) for them to constitute a 'problem'.

Yes they do they have the special lifestyle of being Muslim

 

[william kent]

Sorry, the idea of what?

The idea of Russian intel actors. You don't need an actual bot or bad actor to sow discord. You just need people to suspect the presence of one.

 

[DannyL]

Hey, I was on the verge of making you a nice Ian Paisley meme with that line about "problem tribes" - don't make me regret not doing it!

Don't I'm watching Blair & Brown: The New Labour Revolution in another window and weeping at Tony's genius in sorting it all out.

 

[DannyL]

If only Red China had someone like Tony.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Yes they do they have the special lifestyle of being Muslim

And yet Muslims have jobs and pay taxes and buy stuff in capitalist Britain just like everyone else. That's not a different lifestyle like travellers/Roma.

 

[Clinamenic]

The idea of Russian intel actors. You don't need an actual bot or bad actor to sow discord. You just need people to suspect the presence of one.

But its also a perfectly feasible tactic, and one that we (the US) don't seem equipped for, for it would seem to require the moderation of information online.

 

[Clinamenic]

The idea of Russian intel actors. You don't need an actual bot or bad actor to sow discord. You just need people to suspect the presence of one.

But I would also say that the notion of there being a hostile third party that is deliberately radicalizing you, whichever side you're on, would seem to ameliorate your radicalization, to let you see through it. That is, I don't think the notion of there being Russian rhetoric bots is a notion that would itself fuel further discord, actually I think it would calm things somewhat, by making the adversity seem somewhat artificial.

 

[DannyL]

Paisley has just come on and started shouting at him.

 

[Murphy]

Tony, from China

- nice to meet you Tony, from China

The Uyghurs, how do you say that?

- Uh-grrrrs

Yes the Uhgrrrs, what about it?

- nothing Tony, from China, we were just confused

 

[william kent]

And yet Muslims have jobs and pay taxes and buy stuff in capitalist Britain just like everyone else. That's not a different lifestyle like travellers/Roma.

That's in Britain though and there's still a lot of Islamophobia here, both from the public and from the state. The state's opposition to Sharia will undoubtedly be stronger in China.

 

[Clinamenic]

I mean, re: Russian intel actors, I am getting all my information from establishment sources (Cipher Brief, CSIS, FPRI, Brookings Institution), and just running this information through my own working gauntlet of what makes sense, what is feasible, etc.

So sure I'm bound to inherit hegemonic spins, but I see all information as transient, in a way. One's interpretation can always be more informed, and the situation is always changing.

 

[william kent]

I'm not arguing against the existence of Russian intel actors, I'm saying that the idea of them alone is enough to achieve some of their alleged aims. You can tear an organisation apart if you convince them there's a mole in their midst, whether there actually is or not.

 

[Clinamenic]

That is, it makes sense to me that Russian Intel actors would mobilize a brigade of bot accounts and human-driven fake accounts, in the interest of compromising the social integrity of a rival nation. To me, it makes sense strategically and it seems feasible tactically.