The Metaverse

[luka]

version is a bad person

 

[Clinamenic]

To my knowledge there is a non-trivial portion of the circulating supply of BTC that is lost, to this effect. Really it may not even make sense to consider this a portion of the circulating supply, and more a chaotic deflationary factor.

 

[luka]

@toko you need to help Stan out here, he needs a tag team partner to come flying in off the top rope with an elbow, vim's got him in a vicious figure-four leglock

 

[toko]

gimme a sec lemme catch up

 

[Clinamenic]

We've already reached a synthesis.

 

[Clinamenic]

But maybe there are more technical arguments to be made re: use cases of decentralized databases.

 

[vimothy]

It's a new set of protocols that developers can explore to solve problems, when and where decentralized databases, and the incentive models thereof, benefit a given business product or enterprise. I think that should be an uncontroversial assertion.

but you don't even know *what those problems are*

 

[toko]

First I will say I think the term "web3" is basically a way to get VC's to shill their bags. Even the term "metaverse" is stupid and misued.

look, it's just massively evident that whatever protections the blockchain model provides is not sufficient to prevent massive and ongoing fraud. so whatever potential future is entailed by these technologies it will necessarily entail central (a network of central, perhaps) authorities who manage it

on the contrary, "regulation" could be as simple as coming after known bad-actors and grifters, it doesn't entail a group that manages it, nor the loss of censorship resistance.

I agree completely, but the space of problems that can be addressed only by a decentralized, immutable db is quite small

if you truly think this then I understand all your other views. unfortunate I think this is way off the mark. first, the immutable data layer is only one part of crypto/web3, it also includes a way for trust minimized computation. i agree that there will not be one and only immutable db, but rather a hyperliquid network of chains which interoperate according to open source standards.

 

[vimothy]

everyone is already using decentralised dbs, that's not really that exciting

 

[vimothy]

First I will say I think the term "web3" is basically a way to get VC's to shill their bags. Even the term "metaverse" is stupid

fully agreed

 

[vimothy]

if you truly think this then I understand all your other views. unfortunate I think this is way off the mark. first, the immutable data layer is only one part of crypto/web3, it also includes a way for trust minimized computation. i agree that there will not be one and only immutable db, but rather a hyperliquid network of chains which interoperate according to open source standards.

so what is the point then, if it's not that?

 

[toko]

one "use" case, (I hate the term bc it assumes that technologies must conform to our preconceived notion of "social problems" ) is the massive scalability it affords.

 

[vimothy]

define scale

 

[toko]

a large percentage of assets in the world

 

[vimothy]

that doesnt sound like a definition of scalability. what do you actually mean by scale

 

[toko]

i.e finance will be much cheaper, have better u.x, serve more people

 

[vimothy]

as in the verb, sorry

 

[vimothy]

i.e finance will be much cheaper, have better u.x, serve more people

how?

 

[Clinamenic]

but you don't even know *what those problems are*

I mean case by case development challenges and needs faced by businesses, where some services (perhaps like IPFS, Akash, etc) can leverage decentralized databases to enable certain features that may be less feasible or affordable, in some cases, than centralized alternatives (i.e. AWS charging prohibitively high fees for data retrieval in some cases). Its a maximally broad assertion I'm making, but I do think its clear that a new set of tools only expands the technical capabilities of the tool-users, in this case the developers.

Nobody is gonna force developers to use blockchain, and if they use it for gimmicky or trendy reasons, rather than actually ascertaining whether or not their business will benefit from them, then the performance of their business will reflect this suboptimality.

 

[toko]

In terms of cost, it's pretty much deducible by first principles. Marginal cost for protocols tend towards zero, and since they are open source rent extracted tends towards zero.