The Front

[sus]

He hasn't even joined Facebook, and he's claiming that his concerns over social media aren't set by Old Media crusades? What first hand experience could he possibly be drawing on in forming his opinions??

 

[Clinamenic]

Anyone who knows anything knows Protestant work ethic isn't a religious value anymore, it long ago seeped into the cultural water supply. It's a major difference between Northern Europe and Southern Europe, for instance. All you have to do is compare Germany's economy/20th C history with Italy's if you want examples. One nearly took over the world twice, got bombed to pieces, was literally divided in half between two warring superpowers, and has still emerged as a top-5 economy in the world, just decades later. The other is basically bankrupt and giving away free real estate because all the old people sit around drinking espressos in cafes and any young people with ambition leave immediately.

Yeah I think it becomes clearer when you consider how business is effectively a virtue in much of western culture, regardless of how unnecessary it becomes past certain levels of wealth. I'm inclined to associate this with Protestantism, but I don't have a confident basis for this association. Seems like other ethno-religious cultures have similar emphases on business and productivity, in ways that may not entirely be the product of protestant influence.

 

[sus]

And yeah optimizing a product/service in terms of pleasurability seems like a natural reaction to consumer demand. I suppose once biometrics and big data enter the picture, people get more uncomfortable about it.

This is the thing, is we COULD be having an interesting conversation about the dynamics here, because eventually, as behavioral science + neurology + tech get better and better, we'll get more and more control via manufactured stimulus, faster and faster. It's just that we're not quite there yet.

 

[sus]

Yeah I think it becomes clearer when you consider how business is effectively a virtue in much of western culture, regardless of how unnecessary it becomes past certain levels of wealth. I'm inclined to associate this with Protestantism, but I don't have a confident basis for this association. Seems like other entho-religious cultures have similar emphases on business and productivity, in ways that may not entirely be the product of protestant influence.

Max Weber is the reason people associate protestantism and capitalist productivity

 

[Clinamenic]

In this light, Christmas is the perfect protestant-capitalist holiday, celebrating productivity as much as, or more than, the birth of Christ.

 

[WashYourHands]

He hasn't even joined Facebook, and he's claiming that his concerns over social media aren't set by Old Media crusades? What first hand experience could he possibly be drawing on in forming his opinions??

He’s observed the behaviour and hubris of others

Reccy the map before you walk into it

 

[Clinamenic]

Max Weber is the reason people associate protestantism and capitalist productivity

Its also my understanding that capitalism started in Britain, something to do with privately rearing sheep on feudally designated land.

 

[Clinamenic]

Its also my understanding that capitalism started in Britain, something to do with privately rearing sheep on feudally designated land.

That is, to support the association between Protestantism and capitalism. But I don't know the demographics of Christian denomination in Britain in the 18th and 19th centuries.

 

[Clinamenic]

I also think its clear that the "new media" can reach users with considerably greater precision than the "old media," which I think sheds a light on why so many people feel manipulated by the likes of Facebook: that one's mind is something to be cybernetically steered.

 

[WashYourHands]

Behavioural science? Just a book, for nerds

None of it could possibly underpin or incentivise engineering

 

[luka]

i think science is all made up and not real so im sceptical of the word dopamine. wash your hands i assume is getting wound up becasue his work with addicts uses a dopamine reward model and hes found it useful maybe?

 

[WashYourHands]

Playful Luka

 

[Clinamenic]

You really do miss out on so much beauty by shutting out science like that. Yes, its all ideas, but these abstract frameworks can really enrich how you perceive the world.

 

[Clinamenic]

But not being able to turn it off, I.e. scientism, does seem to lock one up in a world of ideas, in such a way that really isn't unlike religion at its core: discourse that describes the nature of the universe and existence, beyond what can be apprehended with the naked senses; discourse that one chooses to believe.

 

[Clinamenic]

Also unlike religion, as far as I can tell, much of the dogma of science is open to scrutiny and first-hand experimentation, rather than just trusting the science because science says so. Although, as far as most humans are concerned, it is more or less purely a matter of trust, i.e. trusting the experts.

 

[Clinamenic]

That said, I also suspect there are elements of religious discourse here and there that permit first-hand verification - but the whole notion of the existence of an omnipotent form of consciousness is something that defies first-hand verification, at least in my experience.

Science in this sense is a falsifiable dogma, and as a source of epistemic authority I consider it more advanced than any religion, albeit at a disadvantage gnostically.

 

[sus]

Behavioural science? Just a book, for nerds

None of it could possibly underpin or incentivise engineering

Anyone who has followed behavioural sciences the last decade knows that they're completely medieval, their studies fail to replicate, the "nudge" idea is a big laff, etc. The field's called "BS" for a reason.

 

[WashYourHands]

Different scope re-science and scientism. We invented a 3 letter word to get at the source of all things. We’re not that complex

The evolving relationship between telephone/wifi networks, chemical rewards and dosing mechanisms as apps are easier to grasp, surely

 

[sus]

You really do miss out on so much beauty by shutting out science like that. Yes, its all ideas, but these abstract frameworks can really enrich how you perceive the world.

Also unlike religion, as far as I can tell, much of the dogma of science is open to scrutiny and first-hand experimentation, rather than just trusting the science because science says so. Although, as far as most humans are concerned, it is more or less purely a matter of trust, i.e. trusting the experts.

And by extension, there are loads of good ideas to be mined from religion, if you treat it lightly instead of reverently

 

[WashYourHands]

Anyone who has followed behavioural sciences the last decades knows that they're completely medieval, their studies fail to replicate, the "nudge" idea is a big laff, etc. The field's called "BS" for a reason.

I n c e n t i v i s e d r e w a r d s

The wages of sin, Hun