HS2 and the infrastructure problem

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Well-known member
We can talk about infrastructure in general, but HS2's the elephant in the room in Britain and Sunak's apparently pulled the plug on the Manchester leg as well as the Leeds and others. It's not even a particularly popular move with Tories and yet he's still doing it. Supposedly he wants to direct funds to the roads instead, but remains to be seen whether that will actually happen.

Are we incapable of pulling off a project like this nowadays? If so, why?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I think the long and short of it is corruption, really. On one hand, the present government is completely addicted to outsourcing and consultancy, on the basis that the private sector is supposedly more 'efficient' than the 'bloated' public sector, whereas in fact the competition that would notionally keep prices low is often non-existent, and contracts get handed out with little if any proper scrutiny, and usually to whoever has offered or already given the biggest party donations, or to people who are the partner, sibling, or old school chum of the MPs making the decision (if they're not in fact the same person).

And on the other, once the contract is signed, the contracted party often has such favourable terms that it can basically string the construction process out indefinitely and still get paid, regardless of how outrageously late or over-budget it ends up being. The deal the government signed with EDF to build the Hinkley Point C nuclear plant is a particularly egregious example, as it's likely to be over a *decade* late, but the government is legally compelled to keep handing over cash regardless. So there's no real incentive to actually stick to the budget or schedule at all.

The last Labour government was bad enough for this sort of thing, but it's really gone into overdrive with this lot, to the extent that the construction industry has been called a wing of the Conservative party (or maybe even vice versa). https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/tories-buouyed-by-construction-donations
 

version

Well-known member
The four-year election cycle probably plays its part. It doesn't exactly encourage longtermism.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
I think the only way to interpret Tory policy at this point is that they know that they're going to lose the next election and they want to leave as big a mess for Labour to clean up as they plausibly can.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I think the only way to interpret Tory policy at this point is that they know that they're going to lose the next election and they want to leave as big a mess for Labour to clean up as they plausibly can.
That, and lining their pockets, or those of their mates and relatives, as thickly as possible while they still can.
 

version

Well-known member
I read the other week the crumbling concrete in schools and elsewhere's been a concern for over 20 years, so it isn't just a current Tory thing.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
True, the other way to interpret Tory policy is that they've always been fucking cunts. They do seem to have gone into overdrive in the last couple of months, though.
 

version

Well-known member
Is it this bad elsewhere? Do other countries have this aversion to investment and long-term planning?
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
“Northern Powerhouse speeding up networking via midlands and the south!”

hi-viz policy, epitomises the country and the times

“check us out, we’re doing things, we’re getting things done’, just add blond bombshells

IMG_1043.jpeg
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I read the other week the crumbling concrete in schools and elsewhere's been a concern for over 20 years, so it isn't just a current Tory thing.
That's what I meant when I said Labour wasn't innocent of the same sins. But I don't see how any honest person can deny that it's got far worse.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Is it this bad elsewhere? Do other countries have this aversion to investment and long-term planning?
Flint, Michigan hasn't had safe drinking water since 2014.

In Europe, I think this is the sort of corruption that Brits once liked to take the piss out of Italy and Greece for. But now we just look like those countries except with much shittier weather.
 

RWY

Well-known member
Is it this bad elsewhere?
Yes - Germany has two particularly horrendous examples in the form of Berlin Brandenburg Airport and the Stuttgart 21 project, although scrapping HS2's northern branches and then terminating what remains at Old Oak Common will outdo both in terms of money spent vis-à-vis misery inflicted:

Berlin Brandenburg: The airport with half a million faults
Stuttgart 21 - Germany's other engineering fiasco

Do other countries have this aversion to investment and long-term planning?
No - whilst not entirely free from problems, the scale and speed at which the Spanish high-speed rail network was developed demonstrates that such projects can be successfully completed and operationalised at a national level:

Spain’s high-speed railway revolution
 

version

Well-known member
This is mind boggling;

At the beginning of the 21st century China had no high-speed railways. Slow and often uncomfortable trains plodded across this vast country, with low average speeds making journeys such as Shanghai-Beijing a test of travel endurance.

Today, it’s a completely different picture. The world’s most populous nation has – by some distance – the world’s largest network of high-speed railways. No fewer than 37,900 kilometers (about 23,500 miles) of lines crisscross the country, linking all of its major mega-city clusters, and all have been completed since 2008.

Past, present and future: The evolution of China’s incredible high-speed rail network

 
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