questions you are dying to ask but are too scared to b/c of music nerd cred?

[zhao]

slew = past tense of slay. so 'slew dem' means 'kill them violently'. metaphorically, of course!

as far as i'm aware it doesn't have any specific, gang-related meaning

ok, so it means "killed them violently". but in what CONTEXT?? I assume the MC is proud of having done this (killed them violently), because it sounds like he is... but what does the song MEAN??? is it just non-specific macho boasting like "mowing down niggaz like I'm mowin' the lawn"?

 

[DonRuba]

ok, so it means "killed them violently". but in what CONTEXT?? I assume the MC is proud of having done this (killed them violently), because it sounds like he is... but what does the song MEAN??? is it just non-specific macho boasting like "mowing down niggaz like I'm mowin' the lawn"?

I'd say that the word "slew" is used in two contexts: the term originated among Jamaican rastas and was popularized by militant rastafarian dancehall and new roots artists in Jamiaca, first and foremost by Capleton. In this context it refers to the righteous killing of anyone that is considered a wrongdoer by militant rastafarian moral standards. That is, among others, homosexuals, police men, politicians, Queen Elizabeth and the Pope.

The other context is the British grime culture. Here it has mainly a symbolical meaning: to be the best MC in a clash. That is, killing all the competition. A synonym to "slew" in this context is "murk". It would be interesting if anybody has any suggestions for the origins of that word.

 

[mms]

I'd say that the word "slew" is used in two contexts: the term originated among Jamaican rastas and was popularized by militant rastafarian dancehall and new roots artists in Jamiaca, first and foremost by Capleton. In this context it refers to the righteous killing of anyone that is considered a wrongdoer by militant rastafarian moral standards. That is, among others, homosexuals, police men, politicians, Queen Elizabeth and the Pope.

The other context is the British grime culture. Here it has mainly a symbolical meaning: to be the best MC in a clash. That is, killing all the competition. A synonym to "slew" in this context is "murk". It would be interesting if anybody has any suggestions for the origins of that word.

got to remember that west indian slang is pretty strong, so slew still doesn't really mean slew in a sense - its a strong word to express desire or 'things that should happen' rather than a description of an willed action.

 

[toasted]

the whole 'are you mad? do you hate yourself?'

what the fuck song is that? kids won't shut up about it.

are you stupid?

its skepta on his crackhead rant

check his rinse sets its big

skepta is showerblock business

 

[zhao]

ok... here goes... what does trill mean? besides vibrato?

and someone (Tate?) give a similar breakdown of Spectralism please. is Ligeti a Spectralist?

 

[michael]

I'm sketchy on Spectralism, but I'm pretty sure Ligetti wasn't part of it. If nothing else I think he was writing earlier than the Spectralists?

If I remember rightly Spectralism was initially based on the discovery that you can look at a frequency spectrum for a sound and see all the different overtones that are occuring at any point in time - you can map out the frequency information and see which frequencies occur and the relative volumes of each. This in some sense "should" be about harmony and pitch, but actually tells the ear more about timbre, i.e. the texture or character of a sound.

To take a big contrast, consider that a Fruity Loops synth in a grime track coming over a PA and a concert hall pianist playing a Steinway might be playing exactly the same melody, but the character of the sounds will be waaaay different. The differences can be described in a spectrum.

Spectralists took this kind of information and tried to chop apart the different elements and re-arrange / re-create them through the use of live instrumentation. So you'd try to get your ensemble to play the right combination of things that resulted in a similar sound spectrum to something completely different.

I'm pretty sure Ligetti's stuff, however full on it gets, is still based on an even tempered scale (i.e. the typical tuning of most all popular music and certainly about 99% of anything produced involving a keyboard instrument). If you were trying to re-create the spectrum of frequencies in a naturally occuring sound, I can't imagine sticking to that scale would get me very far.

 

[michael]

To take a big contrast, consider that a Fruity Loops synth in a grime track coming over a PA and a concert hall pianist playing a Steinway might be playing exactly the same melody, but the character of the sounds will be waaaay different. The differences can be described in a spectrum.

Not sure I fleshed this bit out enough. What we hear as the note "C" on a piano or a synth or a guitar or desert wind blowing through power lines has a certain fundamental frequency. This is what we hear as C. But then there's all these other overtones, which at their most basic can be described as quieter frequencies occuring at the same time. If you're near a piano some time put your foot on the sustain pedal and whack a note as hard as you can and sit and listen. You'll hear a whole lot of different, ascending pitches coming off the one key as the string resonates and the original vibrations do other shiznit inside the piano.

These other elements may be perceived as noise or pitch, but either way they contribute to the character of the sound and they're what allows a person to distinguish one kind of instrument from another.

So it's this shit that you're playing around with when you're analysing spectra.

 

[gabriel]

I'd say that the word "slew" is used in two contexts: the term originated among Jamaican rastas and was popularized by militant rastafarian dancehall and new roots artists in Jamiaca, first and foremost by Capleton. In this context it refers to the righteous killing of anyone that is considered a wrongdoer by militant rastafarian moral standards. That is, among others, homosexuals, police men, politicians, Queen Elizabeth and the Pope.

yeah, but not literal killing. how many militant rastas do you hear about that go round killing gays, police, politicians, monarchs and religious leaders? like mms says, jamaican slang is very hyperbolic and words are often used in a very non-literal way. blacker dread (south london reggae producer/record shop owner/founder of the black music council) made a good point about this in regard to the whole furore around homophobic lyrics - for years, people in the uk have been exposed to jamaican slang and got used to the fact that so much of it is non-literal. he used the example of the word 'wicked' to mean something good, rather than literally evil/wicked. this meaning, originated in jamaica, is apparently now in the oxford english dictionary...and yet when the whole outrage business kicked off, no one stopped to think 'hang on, maybe these words aren't meant literally either'

The other context is the British grime culture. Here it has mainly a symbolical meaning: to be the best MC in a clash. That is, killing all the competition. A synonym to "slew" in this context is "murk". It would be interesting if anybody has any suggestions for the origins of that word.

i would say this is the same kind of killing though, don't you think? apart from the righteous aspect i guses. regarding murk, i think it may be a corruption of 'murder' and, again, originated in jamaica (though it's not widely used - but i've heard it in a couple of dancehall tunes i'm sure)

slew still doesn't really mean slew in a sense - its a strong word to express desire or 'things that should happen' rather than a description of an willed action.

exactly - or just a condemnation of something you don't like. cf also 'bun dem' which does not mean literally burn.

 

[hamarplazt]

ah. this makes sense. that Arnold was actually trying to avoid and get away from the oppressiveness of the late romantic music - which was overladen with emotional content at the expense of formal logic and clarity.

If anything, Schönberg tried to continue the tradition that had led to late romanticism. There were other alternatives, but he deliberately wanted to make a continuation of that tradition, not break with it. Some serial composers were obsessed with mathematical logic and clarity, but Schönberg allways seemed full of expressionistic late romantic emotions, also in later 12 tone works. Don't understand how anyone could find him dry and formulatic.

And anyway, nothing wrong with mathematical clarity I'd say... Bach is full of it, and still by far the greatest composer of all time.

 

[DonRuba]

got to remember that west indian slang is pretty strong, so slew still doesn't really mean slew in a sense - its a strong word to express desire or 'things that should happen' rather than a description of an willed action.

I'm not sure that I get the difference here.

Is your point that if for example Capleton says "Slew all battyman", he isn't literally ordering his listeners to go out and kill all homosexuals, but just telling that the way he sees things, it would be nice if all homosexuals got killed?

But then "slew" still means "kill"?

 

[DonRuba]

yeah, but not literal killing. how many militant rastas do you hear about that go round killing gays, police, politicians, monarchs and religious leaders? like mms says, jamaican slang is very hyperbolic and words are often used in a very non-literal way. blacker dread (south london reggae producer/record shop owner/founder of the black music council) made a good point about this in regard to the whole furore around homophobic lyrics - for years, people in the uk have been exposed to jamaican slang and got used to the fact that so much of it is non-literal. he used the example of the word 'wicked' to mean something good, rather than literally evil/wicked. this meaning, originated in jamaica, is apparently now in the oxford english dictionary...and yet when the whole outrage business kicked off, no one stopped to think 'hang on, maybe these words aren't meant literally either'

Wow, that's just great. So if we would agree that Jamaican dancehall artists don't literally want to kill homosexuals, it's would all of a sudden be totally okay for them to say that homosexuals are the scum of the earth in a lot of their song lyrics?

 

[zhao]

there's all these other overtones, which at their most basic can be described as quieter frequencies occuring at the same time.

So it's this shit that you're playing around with when you're analysing spectra.

the reason I thought Ligetti was a Spectralist because he seems to also scrutinize the "character" of sound, and seemed to be fond of breaking things up into hundreds of tiny fragments that comprise his "dense micro-polyphonic webs" and clusters of sound particles which form "a continuous web of finely-woven lines or repeated patterns in a constant, interactive process of transformation..." which seems close, atleast in spirit, to the aproach of the Spectralists...

found this page with brief descriptions of the numerous books and articles written about Ligeti's work:

http://theory.music.indiana.edu/isaacso/t556/bibliographies/ligeti.html

ok now someone tell me what Trill is and why Bun-B is the king of it.

 

[toasted]

true + real = trill (pronounced wif a dirty south treall twang)

 

[zhao]

true + real = trill (pronounced wif a dirty south treall twang)

thanks. I knew he wasn't the king of the vibrato.

 

[baboon2004]

Thank God I wasn't the only one who didn't know that. I can now go around using 'trill', 'U&K' etc etc at will. Fab.

 

[Immryr]

thanks. I knew he wasn't the king of the vibrato.

lolololol

 

[gabriel]

I'm not sure that I get the difference here.

Is your point that if for example Capleton says "Slew all battyman", he isn't literally ordering his listeners to go out and kill all homosexuals, but just telling that the way he sees things, it would be nice if all homosexuals got killed?

But then "slew" still means "kill"?

i don't really think that capleton wishes death on all gay people. i don't think 'slew' is meant literally. i see it as a criticism of a lifestyle, made using hyperbole.

here's another example. when anthony b sings 'bun out tv, bun out dvd' does he mean:

(a) a command to his listeners/followers to go and burn tvs/dvds
(b) that he thinks it would be nice if all tvs/dvds were burnt
(c) that he thinks that tvs/dvds are symbols of a decadent lifestyle and he sees them as having a negative influence on life in jamaica

er....

Wow, that's just great. So if we would agree that Jamaican dancehall artists don't literally want to kill homosexuals, it's would all of a sudden be totally okay for them to say that homosexuals are the scum of the earth in a lot of their song lyrics?

i'm not sure i have a problem with people expressing negative views about homosexuality. i don't think the way most jamaican artist address the issue is very constructive (understatement), so i don't think it's 'totally okay' - but i don't think the whole issue should be as taboo as it is perhaps.

 

[droid]

i don't really think that capleton wishes death on all gay people. i don't think 'slew' is meant literally. i see it as a criticism of a lifestyle, made using hyperbole.

here's another example. when anthony b sings 'bun out tv, bun out dvd' does he mean:

(a) a command to his listeners/followers to go and burn tvs/dvds
(b) that he thinks it would be nice if all tvs/dvds were burnt
(c) that he thinks that tvs/dvds are symbols of a decadent lifestyle and he sees them as having a negative influence on life in jamaica

er....

The use of the term 'bun' by rastas is, for sure not generally meant to be taken literally, but Antony B is probably one of the few DJ's who consistently uses it in the wider sense to criticise the ills of society in general, and not purely to spit vitriol at homosexuality. And Im not so sure that non-rastas like TOK (to pick an obvious example) are being metaphorical when they talk about 'buning' down gay bars either.

RE : your assessment of Capleton's intentions. Even if you give him 'Bun'/'Slew' and 'More Fire' as metaphorical terms on a first listen, once you check out some of his discography, IMO it becomes fairly clear that he's not necessarily sticking to the realm of metaphor for some of his other yrics:

“Sadomite and batty man mi shot up...Whoa”

"Yow...String dem up and hang dem up alive
Dis mamma earth sey none can survive"

"Bun out da chi chi - Blood out da chi chi"

Personally - I think Capletons' a cynical bigot who hypes the Battyman tunes to make sell records, and I reckon his use of 'bun' and 'slew' could easily be taken literally given the lyrical context that he provides in much of the rest of his work.

i'm not sure i have a problem with people expressing negative views about homosexuality. i don't think the way most jamaican artist address the issue is very constructive (understatement), so i don't think it's 'totally okay' - but i don't think the whole issue should be as taboo as it is perhaps.

Im not sure what you mean by this? Are you trying to say that criticism of homosexuality is, but shouldnt be a 'taboo'?

The problem with the Jamaican approach to Homosexuality isnt that its 'negative', its that it doesnt really enter into the realm of criticism at all. Its simply prejudice. Its a pre-judgement based on what you are over who you are" - and as such seems little different to racism in my eyes.

 

[bassnation]

i'm not sure i have a problem with people expressing negative views about homosexuality. i don't think the way most jamaican artist address the issue is very constructive (understatement), so i don't think it's 'totally okay' - but i don't think the whole issue should be as taboo as it is perhaps.

do you apply the same view to racist abuse? should that no longer be taboo?

is there any qualitative difference between the two, in your eyes? sounds like an excuse for plain old homophobia to me.

 

[gabriel]

do you apply the same view to racist abuse? should that no longer be taboo? is there any qualitative difference between the two, in your eyes? sounds like an excuse for plain old homophobia to me.

there's a difference between homophobic abuse and expressing your views about homosexuality. the former is obviously something i condemn. i'm not saying homophobic abuse shouldn't be taboo, but i don't think that making songs about your views (or the public's) on homosexuality constitutes homophobic abuse.