Danish (anti)-Islamic Cartoons

[Paul Hotflush]

The link between the "working class" and racism is pretty simple: racism for the most part is borne out of ignorance (obviously not entirely though, before the pedants on this board get going). Therefore the least-educated section of society (i.e. the working class or whatever term is applicable today) tends to have the highest concentration of people holding those views. This is hardly a class-prejudicial conspiracy...

 

[bassnation]

The link between the "working class" and racism is pretty simple: racism for the most part is borne out of ignorance (obviously not entirely though, before the pedants on this board get going).

lol, very good paul.

tell me, are you able to present an argument without it containing at least one derogratory epithet directed towards people who disagree, or is it totally beyond you? its all a liberal conspiracy, maaaan!

 

[D7_bohs]

Working -class people are the ones who, by and large, tend to have to compete with immigrants for jobs/ resources and housing while the middle- classes avail of the resulting depression in labour costs (particularly for domestic servants). It's not surprising that some people feeling their ability to survive in already tough situations being put under further pressure react against the perceived cause; what is surprising is that, by and large, at least in Britain, and, touch wood, so far in ireland - where mass immigration is a very recent phenomenon - is that working class culture is generally able to adapt quite quickly - unlike the middle class intelligentia who agonise about those nasty prole racists while ensuring that they themselves live far away from any potential culture clash.

..... and Paul; how many working class people do you know? if, as i suspect the answer is none, or few, then surely you stand convicted of the ignorance you accuse them of....

 

[Paul Hotflush]

If you believe that all "middle class" people live in gated complexes in St Johns Wood, that might seem logical.

what is surprising is that, by and large, at least in Britain, and, touch wood, so far in ireland - where mass immigration is a very recent phenomenon - is that working class culture is generally able to adapt quite quickly

Tell that to half the people in Yorkshire.

And, in answer to the second point, the fact that you ask me how many "working class" people I know suggests to me that you yourself know very few people who fall into the category that you presumably imagine the term "working class" describes, and that probably you're unbearably ashamed that your parentage precludes you from fitting into it yourself.

 

[bassnation]

i like how randomly off-topic this thread has become.

 

[Paul Hotflush]

Yeh I was hoping to offend someone with comments about Muslims rather than boring old working class people.

 

[john eden]

Yeh I was hoping to offend someone with comments about Muslims rather than boring old working class people.

LOL - nice one for liberals to agonise about there...

"OMG I was so outraged about what he was saying about working class people that I forgot to be outraged about what he was saying about Muslims. Does that make me racist?"

 

[D7_bohs]

If you believe that all "middle class" people live in gated complexes in St Johns Wood, that might seem logical.

And, in answer to the second point, the fact that you ask me how many "working class" people I know suggests to me that you yourself know very few people who fall into the category that you presumably imagine the term "working class" describes, and that probably you're unbearably ashamed that your parentage precludes you from fitting into it yourself.

that's so wrong, but I'm not going to start dividing my friends up by socio- economic background and race and going into my own history to answer your point. Instead, I'd like to apologise for the ad- hominem point I made about you; it was stupid and I'm sorry. However, i think you should wonder whether the assumption you make that education is automatically a prophylactic against ignorance and racism really stands up - i know i've encountered breathtaking prejudice from people working in higher education; enough not to assume hat you seem willing to accept as a given.

 

[Paul Hotflush]

However, i think you should wonder whether the assumption you make that education is automatically a prophylactic against ignorance and racism really stands up - i know i've encountered breathtaking prejudice from people working in higher education; enough not to assume hat you seem willing to accept as a given.

Apology accepted.

I never for a minute said education was an automatic racism cure (look at Nick Griffin ffs). But if you’re not educated you’re less likely to be able to form a framework in which to rationalise your feelings about people who are different to you (in whatever way, colour, religion, gender, political stance etc).

 

[matt b]

Tell that to half the people in Yorkshire.

woah! even for you, a crass generalisation!

 

[Paul Hotflush]

Yeh, that's probably fair.

 

[Pearsall]

London, today

 

[Pearsall]

More!

If these were white Christians, there is no way they could have even assembled with signs even slightly as provocative, let alone marched...without being arrested en masse!!!!

Un-fucking-real.

 

[infinite thought]

MI5 wrote those banners! They're all in the same handwriting...'Dear Mr Daily Mail, which headlines would you like? Exterminate...no, massacre...um, perhaps a beheading and a butchering...all those who insult Islam!'

 

[Ness Rowlah]

I have one question for those who have a wide cultural and philosophical reach:
Is "freedom of speech" strictly a Western concept?

As for not having pictures of the prophet Muhammad there was a
mention on p43 in The Times on Thursday.
These are as stated not found in the Quaran,
but in the Hadith 5:338 (M's sayings) - http://muttaqun.com/pictures.html

"Angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture." He meant the images of creatures that have souls.

In the same article it is mentioned that you find [at least] one similar
clause in the Bible - the second commandment states exactly this - http://www.keyway.ca/htm2003/20030319.htm

"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I The Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate Me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love Me and keep My Commandments." (Exodus 20:4-6 RSV)

 

[bassnation]

If these were white Christians, there is no way they could have even assembled with signs even slightly as provocative, let alone marched...without being arrested en masse!!!!

fucking nuts.

does this represent typical muslim opinion? i found the cartoons to be crass and not really that funny, but i think i'd draw the line at some critcism rather than beheading the culprits.

 

[Pearsall]

fucking nuts.

does this represent typical muslim opinion? i found the cartoons to be crass and not really that funny, but i think i'd draw the line at some critcism rather than beheading the culprits.

well, these are the outer edge characters (well, at least as far as the ones who are willing to say this stuff publicly). but their views are not wildly off those held by a sizeable chunk of the Muslims in Britain.

check out the results of a poll conducted by the Telegraph after 7/7. Sobering reading. (Original article here ). Of course, this stunning refutation of the 'it's only a tiny band of extremists' line has been memory-holed.

 

[Paul Hotflush]

LOL @ 'it's only a tiny band of extremists'.

Anyone see the kids in Gaza chanting "the only god is Allah"? It's like the 3rd Reich!

 

[milkandhoney]

check out the results of a poll conducted by the Telegraph after 7/7. Sobering reading. (Original article here ). Of course, this stunning refutation of the 'it's only a tiny band of extremists' line has been memory-holed.

which statistics from that poll in particular worry you?

i didn't see anything that contradicts the idea that it's only a small minority of british muslims who support violent or terrorist acts in the name of islam.

 

[Pearsall]

which statistics from that poll in particular worry you?

i didn't see anything that contradicts the idea that it's only a small minority of british muslims who support violent or terrorist acts in the name of islam.

Well, the idea that nearly 1/3 agree with the proposition that "Western society is decadent and immoral, and Muslims should seek to bring it to an end" is the big one. Most, sure, say that this should be done peacefully, but how sure can we be that that won't change?