vimothy
yurp
I don't assume that volition is a property which only humans possess
Why Conspiracy Theories?
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constant escape
winter withered, warm
What do you have in mind when you consider volition? I think that might be a point of miscommunication here, because I really don't think we disagree as much as it may appear. Also largely due to my inability to identify where I am provisionally planting my feet, thus rendering my presuppositions somewhat invisible.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Well... I'm not totally sure that humans do possess it (free-will)... but for argument's sake let's say we do. Then yeah surely monkeys, dogs whatever do too. Amoeba's though, bacteria? Very debatable. Non living things pretty much definitely not. If those non-living things changed to being alive, or even if amoeba's evolved to being dogs then at some point free-will did emerge... along with complexity if not because of it.
constant escape
winter withered, warm
Would you consider "upward" ramification from the atomic/subatomic scale into the mind "external"? I can see where one can go either way there. Like are the roots external to the blossom.
constant escape
winter withered, warm
Yeah that was what I was trying to clarify a few posts up, that I'm deferring to the language of functions and programming as a means of finding some rough sketch/approximation of how to understand a materialist cosmology. I'd agree, in that I don't think the universe has some distinct foundational set of functions that we would be able to equate with our mathematic. At least, I would be surprised if that was the case.
But then again, it would then make sense as to why mathematics emerged within the human mind to begin with - because the human mind was predisposed in that direction. But that is an argument working against whatever kind of momentum I'm trying to establish. Not that its a bad argument.
"Sex and death... Their close association was first made clear to me in the dissertations of Samuel Gloaming, an elderly York eccentric, a herbalist and taxidermist, whom I visited now and then... he said that life was fragmented into an infinite number of entities differing as widely as possible, each from the other, so that it might have a no less infinite chance of surviving the vicissitudes of its environment. Were the earth to be frozen to a block of ice, or burned by the sun to a desert of stone, most of the creatures on its surface would perish, but thanks to their variety a few would still remain, capable of adapting themselves to the changed conditions."
theres more - should i carry on? anyone arsed?
theres more - should i carry on? anyone arsed?
vimothy
yurp
ok but in order to programme an AI, you will need to take advantage of this language of programming. if an AI cannot be programmed "mathematically", then an AI cannot be created
constant escape
winter withered, warm
I don't think I'd disagree with this, but I would argue that a kind of metaphysically truistic approach might be necessary when we go beyond the jurisdiction of today's science, no? That is, where there isn't any evidence to be found, you employ these kind of metaphysical/theological self-affirming theories as a placeholder for eventual evidence. Provisional and adaptive placeholders, ideally, rather than letting it ossify into dogma.
constant escape
winter withered, warm
Yeah I could be beating a dead horse here, and perhaps you already got my message, but another way of saying it just occured. I think I'm going about cognizing a materialist cosmology in a manner similar to cognizing how AI would be programmed. I see a lot of abstract overlap.
But you're right. One distinction between the two cognizing attempts is that AI would need to abide by mathematics proper, whereas the cosmos might be abiding by something that mathematics can only approximate.
constant escape
winter withered, warm
I don't think I follow.
Qui-Gon was Obi-Wan's master then Obi-Wan was Anakin's master then Obi-Wan was Luke's master. Qui-Gon died too early to really teach Anakin much.
IdleRich
IdleRich
But I think it probably did arise from complexity.