k-punk said:
Thanks
Yes, do check out 'Qawaali' by Pinch. Also 'Saints and Sinners' by Distance (it's at 43:40 in my mix
here - a new DL link is further down the thread), which brings back 'feminine pressure' (and, I think, of a less heteronormative variety) via a vocal element while
also remaining heavy in the bottom end. I think there's strong potential in dubstep for a reincorporation of elements like this without becoming easy listening the way Goldie and Bukem did.
k-punk said:
I take your point with respect to 'hardcore continuum' - maybe blissblogga could defend its continued use? - but I don't see any better alternatives atm; 'dance music' has horrific associations (Mixmag etc).
Yeah I think that one needs hashing out. I see your point re: 'dance music' though.
k-punk said:
...nothing I've heard from dubstep has drawn me in or seduced me enough to make me want to investigate it in any depth. Your defence is ingenious, but I think that removing things and dubbing them out are quite different. In fact, what you're saying - that dubstep is dubbing 'the formal elements of 2step/early-dubstep itself' - may only be making the point that I.T. and I are making viz. the girl-unfriendliness/ anti-pop nature of the genre....
It wasn't until I actually went to Forward last year that it totally clicked for me. It became very clear that the physicality of it was an essential component. It was oppressive but ecstatic in a way as well. Not so much the No U Turn "hurters' mission." The vibe was very friendly and the music is soothing in an odd way. To call it spiritual would be too simple, but there's something to the idea of it as meditation on the affective enormity of the sound.
Good point on my 'dubbing out' comment. I think the two points are somewhat different but they overlap. I do think that in dubstep production techniques there is an effort to theorise just what can be taken out of, or re-arranged within, a garage riddim while mainttaining a recognisable garage foundation. This is largely an endeavour in and of itself. But then, yes, the removal of "girl-friendly" elements in any music is often a direct attempt to alter the power structures of the scene. And I can see how machismo has been reasserted in late garage. But I'm also unwilling to equate particular non-literal sonics with any given set of gender dynamics because then we get into light-and-safe is for girls, edgy-and-experimental is for boys (although I know neither you or IT are arguing this).
My partner actually felt more comfortable at Foward, in terms of it not being an aggressively macho or predatory environment, than she had at a club since she used to rave. She also generally likes music with a harder edge, but she just doesn't want to deal with the crowd that is
usually associated with it (and nor do I). This is why I'm hoping that this heavy, but not intrinsically macho, tendency in parts of dubstep will be develop further and supported, particularly amongst the folks who've seen this cycle a few times so far already.
gek-opel - your points on Burials' production methods are really interesting in this discussion of the 'dub' in dubstep. You're right, he's producing in the flattest possible way - completely counterintuitive to dub production ideals.