Hip-Hop - breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

[nomadologist]

i can understand localised slang terms given by fans or artists for localised forms of hip hop but i don't unerstand how anyone could call me out for liking le juan love and krs one or common and the fedaration.

I don't think anyone should call anyone out on matters of taste--there's no point in doing so--but there's bound to be disagreement. and how ridiculous is it to get all up on Poisonous Dart for being dogmatic, like Polz is, and then go ahead and be dogmatic about what exactly were the "fun" moments in hip-hop history? That makes no sense to me.

I said it's *annoying* when people try to tell Americans what American slang is! Not that people from the UK or wherever shouldn't talk about hip-hop. Why all these weird binaries?

People can talk about music from other cultures, but don't be surprised if someone who was RAISED in that culture has a different understanding that they believe is more based in reality than yours is (you having not been raised in that culture.)

 

[mistersloane]

I really admire PD, he's a collector who shares his wares - which is so fucking rare - and I like his wryness, which I think is often mistaken for being glib. As someone who's followed hiphop from the Boogie Boys onwards but who hangs around with alot of goths, I really appreciate his input, and wish I had the guts to put that thing at the end of my posts, but I'm a pussy from London and it just wouldn't work. If you got it, flaunt it man.

 

[nomadologist]

Seriously, Sloane.

Don't know why it's so confusing a concept here: everyone can like hip-hop, some people who like it are going to be more organically in tune with the culture since they LIVED it. When you question whether "one" is hip-hop slang, I have serious questions myself about how much you know about hip-hop in general, given that's one of the most common slang phrases from hip-hop I can think of...

 

[polz]

how ridiculous is it to get all up on Poisonous Dart for being dogmatic, like Polz is, and then go ahead and be dogmatic about what exactly were the "fun" moments in hip-hop history? That makes no sense to me.

it's hard to read and try to understand what other people really say, and much easier to read what you want them to say, isn't it? i am not "all up" on him because he is dogmatic, i ridicule him because he is portraying himself as the fountain of wisdom in matters hiphop, against whom you shouldn't speak unless spoken to.

And as gumdrops pointed out, it's a bit ridiculous to say that pointing out periods when "fun" was more a part of hiphop than other periods is all just a matter of personal taste. i know objectivity doesn't exist, but when we cant make general statements like that anymore, we might as well stop talking.

I said it's *annoying* when people try to tell Americans what American slang is!

again, try to read and understand what i say. i say i know it's short for "one love", i only comment on and make fun of the quite tiring way PD is using it.

People can talk about music from other cultures, but don't be surprised if someone who was RAISED in that culture has a different understanding that they believe is more based in reality than yours is (you having not been raised in that culture.)

and dont be surprised when sometimes something is seen clearer from a distance. also, i doubt that every American automatically is more RAISED in hiphop than everybody else in the world.

 

[nomadologist]

it's hard to read and try to understand what other people really say, and much easier to read what you want them to say, isn't it? i am not "all up" on him because he is dogmatic, i ridicule him because he is portraying himself as the fountain of wisdom in matters hiphop, against whom you shouldn't speak unless spoken to.

And as gumdrops pointed out, it's a bit ridiculous to say that pointing out periods when "fun" was more a part of hiphop than other periods is all just a matter of personal taste. i know objectivity doesn't exist, but when we cant make general statements like that anymore, we might as well stop talking.

again, try to read and understand what i say. i say i know it's short for "one love", i only comment on and make fun of the quite tiring way PD is using it.

and dont be surprised when sometimes something is seen clearer from a distance. also, i doubt that every American automatically is more RAISED in hiphop than everybody else in the world.

Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they don't "understand" you. If you can make general statements regarding personal taste, why can't PD? At least his come with reams and reams of footnotes and references.

PD uses One. as his signature. It's going to be on all his posts. I wouldn't take it too much to heart.

Do you think some American from Oklahoma would see grime "more clearly" than someone like Roll Deep? Or even someone raised in London listening to grime and making their own? Hip-hop is a very culture and locale specific music of diaspora. The only people with any chance of being "raised" in hip-hop are Americans, and even then, these are only a select few Americans (who live in certain conditions, certain neighborhoods, certain lifestyles). This is a huge part of the discourse about hip-hop lyrics and their relative social consciousness--if you don't even know this about American attitudes toward hip-hop, I wonder how well-informed your opinion is. From over here it doesn't look so substantial.

 

[gumdrops]

the prob isnt that yes, if youre raised in areas similar to where hip hop is from you are more likely to have a certain (more realistic? authentic?) understanding of the music that 'outsiders' might not have, its that a lot of hip hoppers think thats the only perspective worth paying attention to. like outsider perspectives hold no weight at all. its quite hermetic. its like when young jeezy was being interviewed by monie love he said the fact monie wasnt from the states meant her views were basically void ('we wont even talk about that'). its that air of my-word-is-law-yours-is-pointless smugness thats jarring.

 

[polz]

alright, my last post on this:

If you can make general statements regarding personal taste, why can't PD? At least his come with reams and reams of footnotes and references.

i never said pd can't make general statments. it's exactly the other way around. i questioned his statement that hiphop is 35 years old, and this was his answer

Don't test me in matters of Hip Hop or the culture, ever. Ask around, you don't want it. One

maybe you understand now as well why i think his usage of "one" is quite the contrary of its original meaning

 

[nomadologist]

gumdrops, how is what polz is saying about the "fun" periods any less hermetically sealed than what PD is saying? it's no less jarring than PD getting sick of people who claim no one in chicago has heard "one" when he made that statement about being challenged, either.

his answer to how old hip-hop was was pretty precise, i thought, and well-reasoned.

 

[nomadologist]

its like when young jeezy was being interviewed by monie love he said the fact monie wasnt from the states meant her views were basically void ('we wont even talk about that').

but here's where being from the States helps, because hip-hop has always been very concerned with its being about a certain way of life, a certain urban experience. young jeezy would say the same thing about an American upper middle class white kid from the suburbs, probably--that their opinion doesn't hold the same weight as the opinion of someone who grew up in the Bronx or Compton or x neighborhood where hip-hop has a history of being made. white Americans are also made to feel "outside" the core of hip-hop, and for the most part, white people accept that hip-hop music historically is about an urban experience that they can't have experienced.

so i think what you're objecting to is something that's inherent in hip-hop culture that Americans already understand is there...a certain insular quality, a certain feeling that the realness of hip-hop relies on being black and from the hood, or at least, very respectful of hip-hops origins in a certain urban experience...

 

[gumdrops]

gumdrops, how is what polz is saying about the "fun" periods any less hermetically sealed than what PD is saying? it's no less jarring than PD getting sick of people who claim no one in chicago has heard "one" when he made that statement about being challenged, either.

his answer to how old hip-hop was was pretty precise, i thought, and well-reasoned.

what, that rhetoric about rapping dating back to the bible and koran etc etc? i mean, fine, that roots of hip hop thing has been around for decades and is so 'accepted' as hip hop lore i see nothing wrong with polz questioning it.

ive got no problem with PD ending everything in 'one' (and i said so earlier when stelfox started getting annoyed about it for whatever reason) and have a lot of respect for what he has to say but but i do find his almost religious and brash I AM HIP HOP shtick a bit much. its like cool man, we get it.

 

[nomadologist]

i really don't get that vibe from him. i think he writes in a very definitive prosaic tone. i remember not quite getting that the first few times i read his posts, but after a while, i saw that he's actually pretty fair-minded and even-keel, he just has very strong preferences and is able to state them very clearly and definitively. i admire that in a musician/music fan.

 

[gumdrops]

but here's where being from the States helps, because hip-hop has always been very concerned with its being about a certain way of life, a certain urban experience. young jeezy would say the same thing about an American upper middle class white kid from the suburbs, probably--that their opinion doesn't hold the same weight as the opinion of someone who grew up in the Bronx or Compton or x neighborhood where hip-hop has a history of being made. white Americans are also made to feel "outside" the core of hip-hop, and for the most part, white people accept that hip-hop music historically is about an urban experience that they can't have experienced.

so i think what you're objecting to is something that's inherent in hip-hop culture that Americans already understand is there...a certain insular quality, a certain feeling that the realness of hip-hop relies on being black and from the hood, or at least, very respectful of hip-hops origins in a certain urban experience...

i have no problem with this - theres certain things that only people within those ethnic groups or from certain backgrounds are going to truly 'understand'. i really respect that. but the thing about hip hop is that this is music being consumed and targeted at people far from the demographic it says are the only ppl that can truly understand it. so what youre saying is that fine, you can buy my music, you can listen to it, you can see my concerts, but should you have any sort of opinion about this music that does not fit the exact beliefs and worldview of the artist, then you might as well STFU.

 

[nomadologist]

i have no problem with this - theres certain things that only people within those ethnic groups or from certain backgrounds are going to truly 'understand'. i really respect that. but the thing about hip hop is that this is music being consumed and targeted at people far from the demographic it says are the only ppl that can truly understand it. so what youre saying is that fine, you can buy my music, you can listen to it, you can see my concerts, but should you have any sort of opinion about this music that does not fit the exact beliefs and worldview of the artist, then you might as well STFU.

No one's asking anyone to "shut the fuck up", they're just pointing out the ways in which they disagree. There IS a preachy element to a lot of hip-hop, where artists are appealing to white audiences to "school" them in the problems of the urban disenfranchised black American experience. (I happen to think this is a very relevant and necessary project, and applaud it.)

 

[polz]

No one's asking anyone to "shut the fuck up", they're just pointing out the ways in which they disagree.

wow, that really is a great translation of this:

Don't test me in matters of Hip Hop or the culture, ever. Ask around, you don't want it. One.

 

[nomadologist]

He did seem to know more than you when it came down to it re: "35 Years." He made a very convincing argument: there are many people who in a broad way will trace hip-hop/rap all the way back to the Bible (this is a very literary hip-hop hermeneutics), but in general it is accepted that there is a time about 35 years ago when certain artists with all of these elements that go into the most common accepted formal definition of "hip-hop" emerged.

Big deal! He challenged you to challenge his definition and you didn't!

 

[nomadologist]

wow, that really is a great translation of this:

and I wasn't translating PD there, I was translating Jeezy based on gumdrops' quote.

 

[gumdrops]

There IS a preachy element to a lot of hip-hop, where artists are appealing to white audiences to "school" them in the problems of the urban disenfranchised black American experience. (I happen to think this is a very relevant and necessary project, and applaud it.)

norma, it isnt 1991 anymore. you cant make that same ageing liberal sympathetic argument anymore. it just doesnt stick.

 

[nomadologist]

Hm? I personally like what most people would call gansta rap. But you can't get past this "preachy" element in hip-hop culture if you listen to KRS One and Eric B&R. Sorry, but it's there. Has nothing to do with me, or what I like, or whether I'm liberal.

Where are you from, Gumdrops?

 

[nomadologist]

Goes to show what you know about American hip-hop. Once again.

 

[gumdrops]

He did seem to know more than you when it came down to it re: "35 Years." He made a very convincing argument: there are many people who in a broad way will trace hip-hop/rap all the way back to the Bible (this is a very literary hip-hop hermeneutics), but in general it is accepted that there is a time about 35 years ago when certain artists with all of these elements that go into the most common accepted formal definition of "hip-hop" emerged.

Big deal! He challenged you to challenge his definition and you didn't!

basically the thing with PD is that he reminds me a lot of people i know who are religious fanatics (and im not anti religious, i am actually somewhat religious) who have this intense fervour about their faith but dont really ever question any of it - they just accept it and recite it verbatim.

anyway, as far as challenging the theory about how old it is, its bollocks IMO. just cos they had some rhyming text back in the bible or koran doesnt mean thats a genuine 'precursor' to rapping. that just means there was some poetry there. in the same way that sure, kool herc transporting the jamaican sound system set up to the bronx meant that it ended up mirroring the sound system style of deejaying in the states, but cowboy and melle mel were not thinking 'hhmmmm u-roy was pretty good wasnt he? how about WE try that!' saying that though, it goes without saying, i think its important that those roots are teased out and documented (thats the other thing intrinsic to hip hop - never losing sight of the past/history/where you come from etc etc).