sonic youth are old and boring

[Grievous Angel]

The quick and the dead

They turned into a parody of themselves after Daydream Nation.

That's my view, certainly. I think they lost it when they didn't release Teenage Riot as a proper single. (Errrr, is my memory right??) They were FANTASTIC from Kill Yr Idols through to Day Dream Nation, though EVOL was a bit patchy.

Lists of fave Sonic Youth tunes please!

Mine from memory in no particular order:

Star Power
Society is a Hole
Kill Yr Idols
Death Valley 69
Shaking Hell

Who went to see them at ULU in, errrr, was it 85 or 86? With the pumpkins everywhere? First college tour after that scatter of pub gigs...

Not sure they ever did anything quite as good as Live Skull's Raise The Manifestation (better than You Made Me Realise? I think so). They were better than Squirrel Bait and Phantom Tollbooth though. So that's alright then.

I seem to recall Thurston Moore wearing an "I Killed Christgau" T-shirt. The whole Forced Exposure scene thought Xgau was a cunt. I never cared much one way or another.

 

[Troy]

Dirty and ExperimentalJetSetTrash&NoStar are ggrrrrreeeeattt albums.

Some of those noise sections on Dirty sound like a tornado is blowing through your living room, and you can see the debris floating back to the ground as it passes.

Experimental Jet set has incredible sound too. Apparently it was recorded over the same tape they recorded Sister on, you can even hear the album Sister underneath..

 

[Buick6]

I think part of the problem with Sonique Youth is twofold:

1. They got superceded and copied very quickly - first by Pavement and the like, then by My Bloody Valentine and alot of the experimeta-electronica set. Part of their shitck was the 'expansive rock' deal, and they didn't have anymore space to expand to. I remember someone telling me once that Robert Quine couldn't believe that Sonic Youth couldn't play simple 12-bar blues.

2. Also I think they were defintely a band where better production really fucked them because it highlighted their limitations, kinda like the Ramones. I reckon there's some great 'moments' in all their albums on Geffen, but no 'whole'. There's nothing that really grabs you and kicks yr arse and makes you want to destroy the government - I mean Rage Against the Machine (esp their last album) beat SY on that tip hands down, whether it tickles yr art aesthetics or not, and even the drum and bass stuff La Rocha did after Rage worked in a different but not less sonically radical and accessable format. (c/w the abortion that was Audioslave, and perfect example of the art/commerce paradox in action)

I didn't mind the recent Brakhage SYR disc, I still haven't tried it as a soundtrack to the DVD yet! I like the 'youth' action they have going on the Ecstatic Peace website and how they're delivering it. It's all very no-wave early 80s and chic art-fashion heads wearing stylish clothes. A friend of mine who was obviously talented and gifted enough to get a job and live in New York once said that they're basically an '80s band' (he works in fashion too!) And to be honest, I think he nailed it, but then, the 80s are trendy-retro these dayze....!

NOTE: Would SY fit under the 'emo' brolly?

 

[Rachel Verinder]

It comes to something when RATM get rated above '90s SY!

I remember wincing when I heard "Youth Against Fascism." Even Bryan Ferry would have made a better fist of that!

 

[stelfox]

NOTE: Would SY fit under the 'emo' brolly?

I don't see how you'd do this.

 

[JimO'Brien]

it's not as if anyone rushes to pull Washing Machine or A Thousand Leaves off the shelves .

I really like Washing Machine and the later Sonic Youth records.

I like that they are slight.
I like that they just drift by.
I like that they all sound the same.

I think that these are all good qulities in a record.

 

[Rachel Verinder]

I feel that way about some bands - for instance, it would please me perfectly if Boards of Canada kept putting out the same record, for those same "drifting/slight" reasons.

With Sonic Youth, however, I just feel that it's cluttering up my shelves.

That having been said, I have never actually sold my copies of either Washing Machine or A Thousand Leaves.

So perhaps there is a lot of truth in what you say about them.

 

[Tactics]

lets not insult RATM....

It comes to something when RATM get rated above '90s SY!

lets not...

 

[Troy]

From Buick6
2. Also I think they were defintely a band where better production really fucked them because it highlighted their limitations

You have no idea of what you are talking about.

 

[mistersloane]

I feel that way about some bands - for instance, it would please me perfectly if Boards of Canada kept putting out the same record, for those same "drifting/slight" reasons.

With Sonic Youth, however, I just feel that it's cluttering up my shelves.

That having been said, I have never actually sold my copies of either Washing Machine or A Thousand Leaves.

So perhaps there is a lot of truth in what you say about them.

We must've had A Thousand Leaves on a loop at work for, literally, three months. Played in the next room it's THE most perfect record to work to, you can concentrate on it, on other things, hum along to it or ignore it completely, it's utterly functional. Then I took it home and tried to play it and it wasn't the same. Perhaps this entry should go in a 'Records that sound better when not listened to' thread....

 

[francesco]

"They turned into a parody of themselves after Daydream Nation"

"You do an awfully good impression of yourself"

"I have came to the conclusion that there is a point, while growing up/getting old, where you became a parody of yourself. I, and many of my friend, maybe all of them, not to mention my family, are a living proof"

"going to the same restaurant and ordering the same entrée you know you like almost guarantees 100 percent satisfaction"

"Also I think they were defintely a band where better production really fucked them because it highlighted their limitations"

"Rage against the Machine are the antonomasia crappy and shitty band "

.

 

[Buick6]

I don't see how you'd do this.

Isn't Thurston a grown-up 'Emo' minus the tatts and piercings...It's that fringe thing d00d!



Still can't understand why they don't do a record with a decent producer like Eno or Rick Rubin or Jon Brion.

 

[OldRottenhat]

Saw them last Thursday with Mark Ibold (Pavement, Free Kitten etc) depping on bass, while Kim switched between vocals, guitar and bass, which made for a big low end on some of the new songs. About halfway through Thurston registered the shouts of "louder" coming from the audience and gave the soundman the nod which improved things a bit but overall they sounded very safe, practiced and predictable. The difference in tone when they played "Pacific Coast Highway" (from Sister) was remarkable, like the whole room had become darker, more ominous. But then it was back to the indie rock....

It seemed to me that the Jim O'Rourke albums were an attempt to substitute elaboration and multiple guitar lines for the noise that used to drive SY which is an understandable direction for a band that's been around for 25 years to go. Those songs sounded a lot stronger live too where you could really hear the detail in them but on Rather Ripped they've cut back the density of the sound and replaced it with nothing very much - some rocker's notion of pop without even a hint of pop sensibility.

SY are old and boring, in much the same way that the Fall are old and pathetic, and entirely unlike the way in which the Ex are old and producing the best music of their lives. It's like the Ex manage to bring something back to the band from all their outside collaborations and improvs whereas Sonic Youth have hived off everything that made them interesting into outside projects (and maybe the SYR albums).

Be Your Own Pet supported so we entertained ourselves by trying to guess whether any of them had been born when the first SY album came out.

 

[big satan]

Isn't Thurston a grown-up 'Emo' minus the tatts and piercings...It's that fringe thing d00d!

have you ever listened to emo, or sonic youth?


i think rather ripped is a dreadful, dreadful record, it may as well be the fucking killers or whoever. i'm a dedicated fan too, everything up to and including murray street was sublime. some of their solo projects are still amazing though, like lee ranaldo's drift or thurston moore's group Dream/Aktion Unit

 

[fldsfslmn]

As in Big Brother, the ubiquitous boorish breeding pair ruins everything . . . Dunno why they evicted that clever bass player! LEE TO WIN!

The real reason why Rather Ripped is worse than any SY-related recording since Thurston's Psychic Hearts (I like how The Wire cleverly gets Thurston to do their dirty work for them on this front) is that they are both reliant on the notorious "Pavement" tuning, CGDGBD, which is basically a singer-songwriter tuning with a nu-metal low-end. It's a fucking disaster, the guitar equivalent of Privatization. Efficiency? No thanks.

 

[Buick6]

As in Big Brother, the ubiquitous boorish breeding pair ruins everything . . . Dunno why they evicted that clever bass player! LEE TO WIN!

The real reason why Rather Ripped is worse than any SY-related recording since Thurston's Psychic Hearts (I like how The Wire cleverly gets Thurston to do their dirty work for them on this front) is that they are both reliant on the notorious "Pavement" tuning, CGDGBD, which is basically a singer-songwriter tuning with a nu-metal low-end. It's a fucking disaster, the guitar equivalent of Privatization. Efficiency? No thanks.

Saw them last Thursday with Mark Ibold (Pavement, Free Kitten etc) depping on bass, while Kim switched between vocals, guitar and bass, which made for a big low end on some of the new songs. About halfway through Thurston registered the shouts of "louder" coming from the audience and gave the soundman the nod which improved things a bit but overall they sounded very safe, practiced and predictable. The difference in tone when they played "Pacific Coast Highway" (from Sister) was remarkable, like the whole room had become darker, more ominous. But then it was back to the indie rock....

It seemed to me that the Jim O'Rourke albums were an attempt to substitute elaboration and multiple guitar lines for the noise that used to drive SY which is an understandable direction for a band that's been around for 25 years to go. Those songs sounded a lot stronger live too where you could really hear the detail in them but on Rather Ripped they've cut back the density of the sound and replaced it with nothing very much - some rocker's notion of pop without even a hint of pop sensibility.

SY are old and boring, in much the same way that the Fall are old and pathetic, and entirely unlike the way in which the Ex are old and producing the best music of their lives. It's like the Ex manage to bring something back to the band from all their outside collaborations and improvs whereas Sonic Youth have hived off everything that made them interesting into outside projects (and maybe the SYR albums).

Be Your Own Pet supported so we entertained ourselves by trying to guess whether any of them had been born when the first SY album came out.

Thanks fella I tip my hat and buy you BOTH a beer.

Sonic Youth can get fucked. I had more fun wahtching the White Stripes dick and shlep around at the recent BDO. Sonic Youth can't even cut it as decent minimalist compsoers let alone a half-decent indie rock band anymore when you have talent like the White Stripes write decent songs and the like. Turston went on 15 years ago about how he wanted DJs to sample his shit, especially on his Psychic Hearts alb. Well, his shit doesn't even have a groove for one. I watched Roger Sanchez RIPOFF the White Stripes '7 nation army' riff and a crowd of 25000 kids went NUTS in the miserable rain no-less! Sonic Youth lost their genuine transecendent sonic ability with Daydream Nation. They ARE OLD AND BORING. Stop transmission. They should get fucked and try and write some decent folk tunes or something. Simple.

 

[francesco]

Sonic Youth can get fucked..

White Stripes, that band from 1963 that is often cited as an influence by Cream and Jethro Tull? Yah they had some good riff at the time... Roger Sanchez best song wasn't on a Toto sample? Toto, that's was you really should listen to... really.

 

[foret]

Do you know the two songs on Helen Lundberg/Eyeliner 7" (released before the new album and included on some of the international editions)

They don't sound like pavement anyway........

 

[foret]

YSI

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=9BA372754CAFB0E5

 

[fldsfslmn]

Sonic Youth can get fucked. I had more fun wahtching the White Stripes dick and shlep around at the recent BDO. Sonic Youth can't even cut it as decent minimalist compsoers let alone a half-decent indie rock band anymore when you have talent like the White Stripes write decent songs and the like. Turston went on 15 years ago about how he wanted DJs to sample his shit, especially on his Psychic Hearts alb. Well, his shit doesn't even have a groove for one. I watched Roger Sanchez RIPOFF the White Stripes '7 nation army' riff and a crowd of 25000 kids went NUTS in the miserable rain no-less! Sonic Youth lost their genuine transecendent sonic ability with Daydream Nation. They ARE OLD AND BORING. Stop transmission. They should get fucked and try and write some decent folk tunes or something. Simple.

A bit harsh, I think. In the first instance I don't think The White Stripes are indicative of much of anything, let alone an example of what Sonic Youth ought to be doing. Nor do I necessarily think that old and boring have to be big detractors. (Derek Bailey continued to annoy and amuse me until a ripe old age.) It's the smugness and wry affluence of Sonic Youth's music since their late-90s retreat into the suburbs that bother me . . .