Smugness and wry affluence- yes. SY are an avant-middlebrow sacred cow begging to be lanced like a boil on the chin of Wire/New York Times approved music makers... They are so dull and unchallenging, they must be executed to make way for someone more deserving and capable of engaging with the contemporary music-scape, and this is not cos they are old, but because they are complacent, comfortable, and un-questing.
sonic youth are old and boring
- Thread starter francesco
- Start date
Until now I basically viewed this thread with little more than contempt. If you don't like the band, fine, more power to you, fair play. But the utter lunacy of this particular post -- intellectually barren, violent, tough-guy frothing, in the style of a gossip column -- is just silly. And like so much of the worst kind of music writing, gek-opel's post says far more about its author than it does about the band under discussion ("they must be executed to make way for someone more deserving and capable of engaging with the contemporary music-scape, and this is not cos they are old, but because they are complacent, comfortable, and un-questing.") Ugh.gek-opel said:
(1) For the record, the members of sonic youth are about as far from "smug" as imaginable, and certainly do not merit ridicule for some sort of imaginary "wry affluence." (Nice to see that your paranoia now extends beyond the wire [not that tired complaint again] to the NY Times too, oh the conspiracy!)
I've known a lot of people over the years whose careers received some sort of support or assistance from Sonic Youth -- Fred Lonberg-Holm, Kevin Drumm, and Jim O'Rourke were acquaintances of mine from the early 90s chicago music world who benefitted from SY's generosity and curiosity. To be honest, I can't think of anyone less pretentious in person than Steve Shelley or Lee Ranaldo. And for chrissakes, SY surely had a sense of humor -- remember ciccone youth? "Complacent, comfortable, and un-questing"? Your post is embarrassingly inaccurate.
(2) Though I'm far from a fanboy or indie partisan, I've followed the band since I became aware of them in 1986, because at the time, as someone interested in pursuing contemporary classical composition, I found the blend of tunings, feedback, damaged instruments, and top-notch drumming to be fresh and exhilarating. Live they were fierce, but simultaneously sensual and musical in their own way. And I very much appreciated the string of records that led from their 1981 EP through to Dirty's abstract noise -- Bad Moon Rising being one of the more austere, and beautiful, audio objects of art in the past thirty years imo. And they followed it with Evol, Sister, Daydream Nation, Goo, and Dirty. Not a bad run. Not, that is, if you actually pay attention to details such as tunings and feedback sections instead of hype and trends.
(3) And yes, sure, I am fully aware that there are reasons not to like SY, b/c very few people stateside in the late 80s or beyond ever liked them. Contra mms' lamentation that SY are overly adored, I can tell you that they were never popular in the US apart from music critics and small circles of listeners. They were hated as an opening band for Neil Young in 1991; the top news story of their Lollapalooza headlining slot was that no one stayed to watch SY after Hole left the stage; and they have never had a hit song. Yet a quarter of a century later, they have shared a part, either as supporter or label owner or collaborator or musical participant, in literally hundreds of recordings, side projects, collaborative gigs, young musicians' careers, exhibitions, gallery shows, film-making, and the like, not only in nyc but chicago and LA (to speak only from firsthand acquaintance).
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Haha sorry about that, I was going off on one. 
I wasn't commenting on the band members per se, or on the band in the 80s, but rather on Sonic Youth now. I don't doubt that the band members are interesting and laudable as musicians, activists and people, however in the form of SY their output of late has been dull, and the coverage they get could be better served pushing someone new. I get the impression that even they themselves are slightly bored with the whole thing given the vast array of intriguing sounding side projects that have been amassing in the shadows of SY for some time. Fair enough that they might enjoy playing together, and their fans may enjoy their albums and gigs, but all the same the impression (perhaps of the coverage more than they themselves) is of a certain smugness. And I have no problems whatsoever with pretentiousness.
I wasn't commenting on the band members per se, or on the band in the 80s, but rather on Sonic Youth now. I don't doubt that the band members are interesting and laudable as musicians, activists and people, however in the form of SY their output of late has been dull, and the coverage they get could be better served pushing someone new. I get the impression that even they themselves are slightly bored with the whole thing given the vast array of intriguing sounding side projects that have been amassing in the shadows of SY for some time. Fair enough that they might enjoy playing together, and their fans may enjoy their albums and gigs, but all the same the impression (perhaps of the coverage more than they themselves) is of a certain smugness. And I have no problems whatsoever with pretentiousness.no need to apologise, gek, I mostly agree with the first assessement. I like S.Y. and surely they've done a lot for the new music community. but the music itself is certainly the most bland and thus accessible kind of "avant rock" possible - hence the success and over-blown status of the band. to me there has not been anything remotely challenging from them since Bad Moon Rising, or anything totally satisfying since Day Dream nation - the later records are just mediocre boring rock.
Why Thank You Lord Thurston
I do think Lee's recent songs still bristle with intelligence and atmosphere. His "Karen Revisited" from Murray Street is one of my all-time favourite Lees. On Rather Ripped Thurston offers musical catfood like "Sleepin' Around."
Regarding The Whitey Album, Thurston is quoted in The Wire as saying that, "We thought we were going to make a white kids' beatbox record. It turned into something totally different."
Ah, the comic genius of Thurston Moore.
They were on The Simpsons.
...
Sorry, what was that you were saying about a post revealing more about its author than it does about the band under discussion? Anyway, since it was me offering the terms "smugness" and "wry affluence," I think you ought to re-read my original post:Tate said:
I thought it was pretty obvious gek-opel was also talking about their music, but it's funny that you'd assume he or she was referring to them personally.fldsfslmn said:
Well then let's leave this generosity where it is, that is to say historically situated in the early 90s. My heart is bleeding for those talented, educated, and self-sufficient Chicago musicians.Tate said:
Like gek-opel, I don't think pretentiousness (or lack thereof) has anything to do with it.Tate said:
I do think Lee's recent songs still bristle with intelligence and atmosphere. His "Karen Revisited" from Murray Street is one of my all-time favourite Lees. On Rather Ripped Thurston offers musical catfood like "Sleepin' Around."
Tate said:
Regarding The Whitey Album, Thurston is quoted in The Wire as saying that, "We thought we were going to make a white kids' beatbox record. It turned into something totally different."
Ah, the comic genius of Thurston Moore.
Tate said:
They were on The Simpsons.
...
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
Yeah, I thought Gek-O's post was alright first time.
There's no doubt that they're worthy and they're probably nice people (haven't met them since 1985 or something).
But the new music - IMO everything since daydream nation - sounds pretty dull to me.
Interesting point about the Pavement (*headdesk*) tuning - is that true?
Thought Buick6's point about the White Stripes and Roger Sanchez was quite well made actually.
Another fave Sonic Youth moment: them playing a really, really distorted, cut-up tape of the Stooges on stage and just, like, meditating on it.
Yet another fave Sonic Youth moment: Lee Renaldo using a miked up acoustic guitar to make feedback - not as a continuous wail, but as a single fat WALLOP of distortion, SLAMMING the guitar into the feedback zone in front of the amp. Fantastic.
See, that's the thing about SY, lovers: ONCE THEY WERE JUST SOOOOOOOOOO GOOD.
Big Black got round the SY problem by breaking up. We should do a BB thread.
There's no doubt that they're worthy and they're probably nice people (haven't met them since 1985 or something).
But the new music - IMO everything since daydream nation - sounds pretty dull to me.
Interesting point about the Pavement (*headdesk*) tuning - is that true?
Thought Buick6's point about the White Stripes and Roger Sanchez was quite well made actually.
Another fave Sonic Youth moment: them playing a really, really distorted, cut-up tape of the Stooges on stage and just, like, meditating on it.
Yet another fave Sonic Youth moment: Lee Renaldo using a miked up acoustic guitar to make feedback - not as a continuous wail, but as a single fat WALLOP of distortion, SLAMMING the guitar into the feedback zone in front of the amp. Fantastic.
See, that's the thing about SY, lovers: ONCE THEY WERE JUST SOOOOOOOOOO GOOD.
Big Black got round the SY problem by breaking up. We should do a BB thread.
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2stepfan said:
big black rule , albinis never fucked about when it comes to his own projects.
as far as thurston going on years ago about djs sampling his shit do you remember that root project on lo recordings - people building tracks around his shit, so someone was paying attention.
there are bits of the albums i love , the later ones, the big storms of feedback on dirty, wish the whole album was like that, what's your favorite imaginary sonic youth album, or song... can't be that hard?