Dubstep
The whole "IDM" thing has a long history, though. From memory the mailing list started in 92. A lot of stuff I read about as "IDM" on that list in the mid-90s included things like LFO, Drexciya + heaps more Detroit stuff, plus the UK response in things like Stasis, Balil / early Plaid / Black Dog when it was those 3... hell it even included shit like Orbital. Even Autechre prior to Anvil Vapre / Tri Repetae were all about drum machine sounds and melancholic synths and none of the fiddliness or "glitch" that got jumped on later.
Funnily it's a lot of stuff which people on here have written fondly of, but I guess never lumped in with the horrors of what "IDM" is thought to mean now.
I reckon that earlier stuff does have plenty of common elements with what's come along via e.g. Hyperdub, but I guess it's more like a parallel evolution or just mucking with some common sound palettes or whatever. So, yeah, as I write this I am thinking the whole comparison is pretty pointless. I'll shut up now.
Funnily it's a lot of stuff which people on here have written fondly of, but I guess never lumped in with the horrors of what "IDM" is thought to mean now.
I reckon that earlier stuff does have plenty of common elements with what's come along via e.g. Hyperdub, but I guess it's more like a parallel evolution or just mucking with some common sound palettes or whatever. So, yeah, as I write this I am thinking the whole comparison is pretty pointless. I'll shut up now.
yeah IDM as a thing referenced in discussion tends to misremember all the actual good artists/things associated with it. i guess it's about as maligned by "propa dance" fans as "propa dance" is by experimental fans...
but anyway, i am interested to hear what sort of formal aspects make certain tracks "post"... it seems to me that the idea of "dubstep" must have shrank in places in order for it not to include certain artists/music anymore... in the end it doesn't matter too much, as i am enjoying the music either way, but i do enjoy talking about it too, and don't think there's anything wrong with that.
but anyway, i am interested to hear what sort of formal aspects make certain tracks "post"... it seems to me that the idea of "dubstep" must have shrank in places in order for it not to include certain artists/music anymore... in the end it doesn't matter too much, as i am enjoying the music either way, but i do enjoy talking about it too, and don't think there's anything wrong with that.
idm is something completely different that happened over 15 years ago alots happened since then, it's not worth comparing the two things its a slightly sneery, pretty lazy generalisation and its an attempt to shoehorn totally different music and notions of music into the ideas of a book done a while ago, and the cap doesn't fit, it's sketchy, and basically warrants being called out of touch.
there is no intent to separate dancefloor music from non dancefloor music or anything like that that idm had, the music's totally different, the vibe and the people are different.
i like aphex twin etc, some of it, not a fan of squarepusher not a big boards fan, but i'd much rather listen to broadcast on warp nowdays, who were the idm label, all that seems like a long time ago, i like flying lotus but the singles were better than the lp, chris clark gets better and stranger, but maybe the best stuff they've done recently have been gang gang and broadcast, times have changed.
post dubsteps a funny term, is post dubstep not just dubstep?
allow for some innovation in the genre, instead of moaning about wobble for fucks sake.
future garage is just bent though.
there is no intent to separate dancefloor music from non dancefloor music or anything like that that idm had, the music's totally different, the vibe and the people are different.
i like aphex twin etc, some of it, not a fan of squarepusher not a big boards fan, but i'd much rather listen to broadcast on warp nowdays, who were the idm label, all that seems like a long time ago, i like flying lotus but the singles were better than the lp, chris clark gets better and stranger, but maybe the best stuff they've done recently have been gang gang and broadcast, times have changed.
post dubsteps a funny term, is post dubstep not just dubstep?
allow for some innovation in the genre, instead of moaning about wobble for fucks sake.
future garage is just bent though.
Last edited:
mala loves theo and moodymann, he's full of suprises that guy.
mos dan
fact music
and skewed by ideological bullshit, as ever. bok bok totally nailed it:
"if jack called himself cityjamz rather than jam city, and talked road, it would be a totally different matter"
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
it's interesting to consider the motives behind people wanting to do this (and i mean beyond the commerical motives of magazines/websites wanting the 'new big thing' to get attention) - it seems a natural human inclination to group things in order to try and make sense of them, to generalise. without the ability to categorise, nothing in the world would make much sense to us (Dissensus does it by having genre-themed threads). but of course the very act of doing that, and how you do it, betrays your ideological stance on the music.
i agree though, that when you get to a situation where this happens immediately the music is made, it's a problem.
there're plenty of records which history has had difficulty in categorising too - a lot fo these tend to be regarded as seminal in one way or another.
Edit: This reminds me of something on another thread a while back, where someone comemnted that Tim Finney's writings (I think) on funky etc are so good because they focus on the music itself, rather than going overboard on 'cultural context' or whatever. Totally agree with that - there was that great rougefoam post on wonky too, that i found way superior to most 'this is the cultural significance of this person/act/band/DJ' writing that's about nowadays.
Last edited:
i'm not keen to Simon-bash, but it's a blatant class slur. it implies: hyperdub, you are white, you are middle class and you are not 'real' compared to real nuum players.
Whereas i think Cooly G, LD, Spaceape, Rodger Robinson, Ikonika, Mala, Flylo, Joker, and Warrior Queen might argue otherwise.
it's ugly having to choose between these poles right now: what's great about hyperdub and lots of music in 09 is how blurred the lines are between previous camps and opposites. road/shoreditch, house/not house, pirate/mainstream dancemusic etc etc
hold ur space really
i don't really get that post sr wrote which basically said white people and black people who make dance music have different types of names, and joker and cooly g were on the edge, why is that interesting, how is it really true and why does it matter?
i don't really get that post sr wrote which basically said white people and black people who make dance music have different types of names, and joker and cooly g were on the edge, why is that interesting, how is it really true and why does it matter?
Last edited:
benjybars
village elder.
yep.
benjybars
village elder.
being both road & shoreditch in 09>>>>
oi Martin i just read that ur putting out an LV 5-track ep all about the 38 bus!
That is such a big look for everyone involved..
Tentative Andy
I'm in the Meal Deal
This is pretty close to spot-on, I reckon. One of things that has excited me about music this year is the way that the old divisions have started to break down - and this is something that has happened not just through the work of artists who self-consciously present themselves as eclectic or post-xyz etc, but through things going on right at the core of previously well-defined scenes. Dubstep djs playing countless remixes of Tempa T, funky djs incorporating European house material, grime MCs jumping on funky riddims and even wobble-dubstep tunes, etc etc.
I think there is a slight risk that what Hyperdub and similar people are doing might become a sort of specialist taste - but this is as much to do with the infrastructure of the music and how it is presented and marketed etc as it to do with the tunes themselves. Also, I think there are enough people who are aware of these risks to be able to fight against it. I certainly think that sonically a lot of this stuff has the potential to be popular, populist and very danceable - and Simon basically acknowledges as much, which is fair play really.
I guess I can sort of see where he's coming from, though: it might just be my own ideological determinents coming into play, but intuitively there does seem still to be a degree of difference between what Jam City is doing and what, say, Ill Blu and Fuzzy Logic and Crazy Cousinz are doing. This was discussed quite a bit on the funky thread. I can't quite put my finger on the difference, it's certainly not anything to do with 'intelligence', however you even measure that, it's maybe more to do with the degree of abstraction. But I think it's important also to recognise that the difference is of the kind between points along a line, not some sharp, dividing opposition.
This is quite a confused post, sorry. I might have more to say on this at some point, but right now I'm not sure how.
yeah me, the keysound photographer and LV spent tuesday night 38 bus spotting in Clapton, scratching our heads and wondering quite how it had come to this, that we'd become, well, bus spotters...
UFO over easy
online mahjong
mms said:
he acknowledges all all those differences, and draws attention to them. i don't think it was a great post but it's being misrepresented because of the way people feel about a single word with negative connotations.
that was almost all that idm originally was though.
so whats the point?
it's not like people doing this stuff are big fans of boards or whatever else they'd do boards music, and they're all quite young still.
Last edited:
UFO over easy
online mahjong
yeah that's exactly what i said upthread, i agree
who's coming to numbers tonight at plastic?
who's coming to numbers tonight at plastic?
Last edited:
