benjybars

village elder.
@ benji, we're completely on a different page...I disagree with what you said about artists motivations to perform live.

to be fair, i really don't feel as strongly about this as it's coming across..

i think i just like hearing well mixed sets so much that i'm perfectly happy with just that!

I'm really intrigued by mixing, and people who can do it skilfully and creatively (oneman, braiden, benUFO etc) hold my attention more than a live set.

on a different note, is anyone reaching Robot Dance on Thursday??
 

michael

Bring out the vacuum
Also at Micheal, do you really think we'd prepare something for ourselves to indulge in? we want the audience to get what we are doing... But I'd also want them to have an inclination of what we sound like before hand... I didn't walk into room 1 on Saturday expecting to bug out to King Midas.
Nah, sorry, wasn't trying to say that at all. I was trying to say I think it's harder for a good performer (or performers) to do something that = a better time than what a good DJ can bring, and that the responses so far hadn't addressed that.

Anyway, as soon as we go outside a dance context everything changes. Have seen amazing "electronic" (meh) live acts. And can't imagine seeking out a DJ who plays stuff that's not intended for dancing, really.
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
So...

On the one hand you have DJs who aren't playing anything outside of "140" because it's outside of their remit.

And on the other hand it seems to be an audience who don't want to hear anything other than what they've already heard.

I just don't understand who dictates what.
 
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michael

Bring out the vacuum
I don't think anyone in this thread has said they want to hear only music they've already heard when they go out dancing.
 

wise

bare BARE BONES
That's cos you weren't at Union on Saturday night, we smashed it! and that was at 3.00 after full on DJs up to that point.

It's really important to get out there and do live sets, it changes the way you work loads, and you can also try out things in a way you cant if you're just DJing.

sorry :confused:
 

wise

bare BARE BONES
Our music alot of the time isn't designed to move the dancefloor. I've seen lots of performances were the audience stand looking at a stage but the vibe has been right. Off the top of my head the xx recently.

Also at Micheal, do you really think we'd prepare something for ourselves to indulge in? we want the audience to get what we are doing... But I'd also want them to have an inclination of what we sound like before hand... I didn't walk into room 1 on Saturday expecting to bug out to King Midas.

@ benji, we're completely on a different page...I disagree with what you said about artists motivations to perform live.

Fair enough, only having heard your released material it's hard to know what to expect. I was in room 2 during your DJ set. Obviously you know what's coming when we're all still waiting.

Kode 9 didn't make me dance but was incredible, but I think this is rare. On the whole I go out to dance and stay in to listen to other things.

Given that you guys made one of my favourite dance tunes in Need You it would be a shame if you lost that element completely :)
 

wise

bare BARE BONES
So...

On the one hand you have DJs who aren't playing anything outside of "140" because it's outside of their remit.

And on the other hand it seems to be an audience who don't want to hear anything other than what they've already heard.

I just don't understand who dictates what.

^^^ and this is comment is based on what?
 

mms

sometimes
fair enough.

but every single live set i've ever seen from dance music producer/dj/group etc has always felt like a pointless, bloated exercise in doing something different for the sake of it..

you say a line-up of just DJs would be too similar... but that's like going to a series of beethoven concertos and moaning that every single one used a conductor.

dance music, in a rave, definitely works best when mixed well by a creative dj.

that's what i think anyway. ;)

you can't call king midas sound dance music at all, as in functional material aimed at the dancefloor, it's all pretty slow, very atmospheric, vocals are the priority, similar with k9 and spaceape even though it's functional in some way, in that alot of it is rhythmic and at danceable speeds, there is a human presence and dense lyrical content, so there is a push and pull between the process of listening and dancing, also spaceapes lyrics are uncomfortable at times haha.
You can dance to them both but they're not strictly dance music as in functional tracks aimed to electrify bodies into absorbed dancing.

Both acts have human performers on them, which can't be reproduced by a dj.

Furthermore the night was set up so that if you didn't want the live acts there were djs in the other room, contestable it was a rave, punters knew they were getting live acts as well as dance music.

sorry benji and michael, your arguments miss the point completely here and sound more like oasis fans arguing about real music, but instead about 'authentic' dance music, and as for live acts as 'people dancing behind their laptops', can you explain how this was the case here? Michael wasn't even there.
 
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viktorvaughn

Well-known member
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Hope all is well:(
 

benjybars

village elder.
contestable it was a rave, punters knew they were getting live acts as well as dance music.

yeah true.

the 'dancing behind laptops' comment was tongue in cheek.. i def wasn't talking about anything i saw @ hyperdub..

as i say, i really don't feel all that strongly about this.. i should have just said 'i prefer DJ sets to live sets' and left it at that!

tbh on saturday i saw Mala and Kode9 play two of the best sets of the year so i'm really not complaining.

:)
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
Given that you guys made one of my favourite dance tunes in Need You it would be a shame if you lost that element completely :)

This.

Obviously every producer should do what they want to do, and I don't have any problem with them making music which is designed with close listening in my mind. Where I do have a problem is with the idea that making music for dancing is inherently limiting or uncreative, that it's 'just' dance music. To me that is approaching an IDM sort of attitude. But to be clear, I have no reason to think 2010 in particular endorses that view.

I suppose a more sympathetic interpretation of the live/laptop approach, though, is that it's a way for producers who don't dj to showcase their music. I think in dubstep, because of the way it developed, there's sometimes been an assumption that every major producer is or can be a professional-level dj, whereas sometimes it doesn't work that way.
 

Blackdown

nexKeysound
i dont think the live + watching/dj + dancing coupling has to be that way, tho it often is. live just means making realtime arrangement decisions, beyond the mix n blend of DJing with two records.
 

mms

sometimes
This.

Obviously every producer should do what they want to do, and I don't have any problem with them making music which is designed with close listening in my mind. Where I do have a problem is with the idea that making music for dancing is inherently limiting or uncreative, that it's 'just' dance music. To me that is approaching an IDM sort of attitude. But to be clear, I have no reason to think 2010 in particular endorses that view.

I suppose a more sympathetic interpretation of the live/laptop approach, though, is that it's a way for producers who don't dj to showcase their music. I think in dubstep, because of the way it developed, there's sometimes been an assumption that every major producer is or can be a professional-level dj, whereas sometimes it doesn't work that way.

hang a fuckin bout they've NOT PLAYED LIVE yet.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
hang a fuckin bout they've NOT PLAYED LIVE yet.

Calm down buddy - As I tried to make clear, most of what I was saying wasn't directed at Darkstar in particular. I was just having some idle thoughts about live sets in general and why they seem to generate this divided reaction from people.
 

2010

Wild Horses
Fair enough, only having heard your released material it's hard to know what to expect. I was in room 2 during your DJ set. Obviously you know what's coming when we're all still waiting.

Kode 9 didn't make me dance but was incredible, but I think this is rare. On the whole I go out to dance and stay in to listen to other things.

Given that you guys made one of my favourite dance tunes in Need You it would be a shame if you lost that element completely :)

we wont loose that element completely, but even need you in some respects was about creating an intro, middle and end, it wasn't whole heartedly created for the dance floor.
all our new stuff is still very much darkstar and it's easy to join the dots.

Also Tentative Andy i don't endorse any kind of IDM approach. We just make tunes we like and now we are trying to get to a position were it's possible to perform these live.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
Also Tentative Andy i don't endorse any kind of IDM approach. We just make tunes we like and now we are trying to get to a position were it's possible to perform these live.

Yeah cool, it wasn't meant as an accusation. :)
My position is basically the same as Benjy's - I'm just a big fan of dancing and djing and so tend to be very supportive of nights based around that.
 

mms

sometimes
Calm down buddy - As I tried to make clear, most of what I was saying wasn't directed at Darkstar in particular. I was just having some idle thoughts about live sets in general and why they seem to generate this divided reaction from people.

ok i'm sorry, it's a symptom of the steam-like information flow of the internet to prejudge, guess, assume, or try to fit a pre-established matrix to any information without any actual proof or integrity, to ignore or distort the answers, and not ask the right questions, and one that ppl should be acutely aware of, or probably not cos its a wind up :)
 
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