Roiling football blather

[baboon2004]

A point proved via the Daily Mail!

true, Xavi may not be a great example as he does get plaudits. But seriously, how many defenders are on that list?

I guess I'm comparing football to rugby, where players in all positions tend to get a bit more credit, and Richie McCaw can routinely (til recently, maybe) be considered the world's best player despite a relatively unglamorous position.

Edit: Maybe I read that too quickly - are they seriously dissing Xavi in that article????

 

[hucks]

Edit: Maybe I read that too quickly - are they seriously dissing Xavi in that article????

Yes! I was proving your point (via the Daily mail). OK, it's the Mail, but this was Jan 09, he'd won Euro 2008 the previous year and was player of the tournament, and people still didn't see he how amazing he was because he played in midfield and didn't grab the game by the scruff of the neck, charge forward, get stuck in, whatever. Just never misplaced a pass and was involved in pretty much all their goals.

 

[baboon2004]

Was incorrectly assuming dissensus!

Yep, it's only when Rooney (quite rightly, many would argue) acclaims Iniesta as the best player in the world, that people start to take him seriously! Curiously, goalkeepers get more plaudits than defenders in the list - as if their isolation makes it easier to pick out the great ones than it does when looking at an entire back four. Do love Casillas though.

So, quick Dissensus poll -who are the best defenders around?

My own votes, from what I've seen over the past year or so - I thought Puyol was immense in first leg of Arsenal-Barca; Vidic is (usually) pretty damanbly good; er, Cannavaro used to be good, right?

 

[hucks]

Pique is pretty awesome. Puyol too. Ramos is still rubbish, tho, I maintain.

But in trying to answer this question I realise I know pretty much nothing about foreign football bar when English teams play foreign sides in the Champions League. Maicon is good. News just in etc...

 

[routes]

best defenders?

remember how Ashley Cole totally wrapped up Messi last time Barca met Chelsea?

Lucio is very good at Inter.... looking forward to seeing how he handles Barca in the semi...

in fact, it'll be interesting to see if Guardiola plays Messi wide right (as he did against Chelsea) or up front (as he did last night) given Mourinho's team's far superior defense......

 

[crackerjack]

best defenders?

remember how Ashley Cole totally wrapped up Messi last time Barca met Chelsea?
.

Cole is a brilliant defender and playing against a superstar opponent seems to bring the best out of him - fond memories of him mocking Man U fans by gesturing to his pocket after dominating Ronaldo a few years back. The Rio/Vidic partnership is the best n the prm, but not a patch on where they were 18 months ago. Vidic lost his aura the day Torres skinned him and hasn't looked the same since.

As for the rest, hard to say from here - let's talk again after the WC.

 

[computer_rock]

if we're going to extend into the past...

if not, maldini is still playing isn't he? what an incredible athlete he is/was

talking of great tackles did anyone see the CSKA player take out two inter players and get the ball yesterday? i think the ref still gave a free kick but it was pretty epic and probably the best thing they did all game

 

[crackerjack]

More on that man again

When he scored a hat-trick against Zaragoza a fortnight ago, one fan started shouting something about how brilliant he is. Pep Guardiola approached the fan and replied: "If it wasn't for him, I'd be a third division coach." Last night he became their all-time top scorer in the Champions League. He is top scorer in this season's La Liga. He has provided more assists than anyone else, too. Yesterday was his fourth hat-trick of the season. He has scored 119 goals for Barcelona and he's still only 22.

And the only difference between this and that is that the first wasn't in a WC q/f.

 

[crackerjack]

So the World's Best League (TM) goes out in the quarter finals....

Soft dismissal but united were toothless at the end

 

[hucks]

Fergie typically graceful in defeat. Crazy game, all in all, but sometimes the away goals rule works very well like that. Nani and Robben were fantastic. Carrick was terrible. Really, really bad.

 

[crackerjack]

Fergie typically graceful in defeat. Crazy game, all in all, but sometimes the away goals rule works very well like that. Nani and Robben were fantastic. Carrick was terrible. Really, really bad.

Yes to all of that. Robben's goal was special in oh-so many ways

 

[baboon2004]

And the only difference between this and that is that the first wasn't in a WC q/f.

Well yes, precisely.

Saw everything but the first five of the second half, so missed the sending off. Presume it was reckless. What a game though - the first Bayern goal seemed a total lapse of oh-we've-won concentration, but Olic took it superbly (as with the first leg). Should've been four or five before half time.

Off topic: 0:49 here -

 

[paolo]

Fergie typically graceful in defeat

Yeah I saw his post-match interview, talking about 'typical Germans' after the Rafael sending off (which was the correct decision for me). At least he's got something interesting to say I suppose

 

[scottdisco]

yes i love it when Taggart goes off on one, at least, like Maradona or Jose (or Arsene when discussing spouses), he gives good copy. typical Germans indeed, SAF, a Frenchman involved in the tussles, goals from a Dutchman and a Croat, and managed by a Dutchman.

 

[scottdisco]

Oliver Kay on Messi in general here; opening w a Messi/Maradona analogy - of course i'm sure Messi himself could shy away from them, but it's an interesting piece overall nonetheless, even if you find his closing sentence irksome.

Messi is producing football that seems to belong on another planet...Stars have shone brightly — Marco van Basten, Roberto Baggio, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Luís Figo, Ronaldinho, Cristiano Ronaldo and, above all, Zinédine Zidane — but not like this, not quite like the irresistible, mind-blowing form that Messi has demonstrated over the past three or four weeks...The long-accepted wisdom is that players peak between the ages of 26 and 30, but this is at odds with an uncomfortable reality that has begun to emerge in recent years. This largely overlooked phenomenon can be seen in the list of winners of the Ballon d’Or, which, since 1956, has been presented to the year’s outstanding player in European and, latterly, world football.

Through the first four decades of its history, the award, with a few exceptions, went to players between the ages of 27 and 33. But, of the past 13 winners since 1997, eight — including four of the past five — have been aged 26 or under and only two, Pavel Nedved in 2003 and Fabio Cannavaro three years later, have been over the age of 28.

Top-class football is becoming a young man’s game. Of those youthful winners of recent years, Ronaldo, Michael Owen and Ronaldinho would testify that the game came more naturally in their youth, when they had the athleticism to terrify opponents.

Of those three, Ronaldinho peaked latest, between the ages of 23 and 26, but he looks a long way over the hill at 30. Ronaldo and Owen, who had both arguably peaked by the age of 22, can justifiably cite injuries, but that is precisely the point. Messi may be stratospheric, but, before daring to place him on the same pedestal as Maradona, we should simply enjoy what he is doing. It is an unnerving thought, but experience warns us that this could be as good as it gets.

 

[baboon2004]

Good article.

When was that time that Barca beat Real 3-0 at the Bernabeu and Ronaldinho scored a wonder goal? I think it's easily forgotten the kind of hype that surrounded him in that era (2005-6? I'm too lazy to look it up).

And no-one that I can recall (may be wrong!) was saying quite such things about Messi this time last year - it was still very much up for grabs who the best player in the world was.

Of those players he mentions, Zidane did it again and again and again, winning everything there is to win, and was generally accepted as the world's best player for quite a few years.

 

[crackerjack]

And no-one that I can recall (may be wrong!) was saying quite such things about Messi this time last year - it was still very much up for grabs who the best player in the world was.

Fighting talk.

11-03-2009 09:43 PM #1087 crackerjack

If you get a chance to see the Barca highlights, do so.

Messi is approaching Maradona levels of genius.

 

[crackerjack]

And

29-04-2009 06:10 PM #1283 crackerjack

Interesting how you run from "woefully premature" to then compare Messi, unfavourably, with Maradonna. He was 25 when he was making miracles in 86, 23 when he left Barca, where his impact was considerably less than the 21-year-old Messi's. Yes, yes, Butcher of Bilbao injury, but even so - find a middle-aged Barca fan and ask them who did more for the club.

(I'm watching golf, OK? There are a lot of boring bits)

 

[crackerjack]

No one else has said it with any degree of seriousness yet, but, in all honesty....

Zamora for England

He can do everything Heskey can, and he can score. And he's in the form of his life - or at least since he was knocking in 30/season for Brighton.

If we can just get England to switch kits, have the press cooperate in planting stories about Rooney et al moving to west London and make Roy Hodgson sit on the bench, we can convince him that he's on a Fulham pre-season tour. If he finds out he's in the WC and expected to be the new Geoff Hurst, I fear his arse will go.

 

[baboon2004]

And

(I'm watching golf, OK? There are a lot of boring bits)

But is Phil Mickleson still looking as glum? That's what we want to know...

Sort of saw bits of the Fulham match, but still can't work out how they knocked out the German champions. That's Zamora, etc. Yeah, Zamora must be above Heskey in the England pecking order (much as I like the guy and disagree with the juvenile flak he's received from the crowds, he's not in the top three/four English strikers)

Fair enough on the Messi question!