The Death Penalty – What’s All the Fuzz About?
- Thread starter Guybrush
- Start date
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
My point is that there's only so little you can (legally) pay people, and that big companies operating in the UK have to be pretty careful about this in order to avoid serious legal consequences. Maybe it's a lot different in the US (or different from state to state, perhaps), I don't know. But simply being able to speak English scarcely qualifies you as a lawyer or a brain surgeon, does it? So it's not as if an employee is going to quit his low-paying job and suddenly become a high-flying executive just because he's achieved a basic grasp of English.
Of course, it may well be in the interest of an employer who is knowingly and illegally exploiting his workers to keep them from learning English, but I specifically excluded that scenario in my above post.
Of course, it may well be in the interest of an employer who is knowingly and illegally exploiting his workers to keep them from learning English, but I specifically excluded that scenario in my above post.
N
nomadologist
Guest
The situation is very obviously different in the U.S., and yes, differs from state-to-state (New York, California, Texas, New Mexico, and Florida being states with very high illegal latino immigrant populations).
Of course it's not that case that if these illegals only learn English they will become high-earning professionals overnight. The point is that if they learn English, they will be able to demand far higher wages and will effectively undercut the entire practice of hiring illegal immigrants to save money. It is widely practiced here (as is outsourcing to India), and the government happily turns a blind eye (unless of course you're a fiscal conservative looking to get red state votes in the primaries by riling up rural Americans who've lost factory jobs to Mexicans. Then you pretend you care until you get in office.) It is certainly in the best interest of the capital-holders to continue to shunt latinos into the new underclass of cheap (exploited) laborers.
A lot of people think of it as "domestic outsourcing." The social problems that result are already well underway.
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N
nomadologist
Guest
Oh, and in the U.S., you can very easily illegally pay people who don't even exist on paper under the table at a rate that's far less than the minimum wage. "Big companies" (Nike is a prime example) have been using sweatshop labor of one stripe or another for years and years already. Now it's in our own backyard.
N
nomadologist
Guest
I'm trying to remember now why illegal immigration was brought up at all...
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I think we were talking about immigration in general, not just illegal immigration.
The UK, at any rate, tries to make it pretty damn hard for illegal immigrants to get here and stay here (although a fair number manage to all the same, of course). Those that do get caught often end up in these prison-like 'processing centres' or whatever they're called, at great public expense. Basically, whatever's happening in the US, the government over here doesn't benefit from illegal immigration, or really represent any interests that do.
Gavin
booty bass intellectual
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Is there anything in the news about the jam sandwiches?
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noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Or what if they are mind controlled drones used to carry out an execution?
There may well be no obvious mitigating circumstances but can we really say that people are naturally psychotic killers unless dissuaded by the possibility of the death penalty? Or of those people that are homicidal psychopaths - can we say that a deterrent would work anyway? I think the evidence from other countries suggests that it doesn't. But really, most people don't do that kind of stuff unless there is something wrong with them or they have been brutalised or fucked up themselves one way or another.
It's a hard call to make but I don't think that the further threat of state violence ever leads to a less brutal society.
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noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Even though in many cases they are likely to be jam sandwiches themselves?
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john eden
male pale and stale
Even if they've admitted it there could be mitigating factors, like being of diminished responsibilty/mental, tortured into making a confession by the cops, etc. It could even be a huge conspiracy with doctored footage, I dunno.
Similarly just because some lifers don't make an appeal doesn't mean they should all die... I certainly know which of the two options I would prefer, in the event of being wrongly convicted.
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john eden
male pale and stale
Incidentally, the reaon jurors are banned from discussing cases isn't to prevent the details are revealed, but so they are not influenced in their decision by the people they talk to.
Which is probably just as well if those people suddenly become in favour of the death penalty.... :slanted:
Which is probably just as well if those people suddenly become in favour of the death penalty.... :slanted:
IdleRich
IdleRich
Well, this is a question about what the purpose of a jail sentence or whatever is decreed actually is. Is it a deterrent, is it to protect the public or is it punitive? I'm most happy with the second of those although if it also acts as a deterrent then so much the better - I'm least happy with the final reason, do we really want, as a society, to vengefully kill or imprison someone?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
It's not a sudden thing, I've always thought this. Cases like this just reinforce my feelings about it. In any case, jurors don't decide on the penalty and they don't make the law, so it's neither here nor there really.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Fair enough, I guess this is one of those things where you feel one way or the other about it. I think you have an absolute human right to life up to, but not including, the point where you take someone else's life without good cause or mitigation.