My Fellow Americans - Dissensian roadtrip

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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
English words of Gaelic origin include hard, glen, bog, slogan, whiskey, blarney, shillelagh, shamrock, colleen, brogoc, and galore. Specifically Scottish Gaelic are clan, loch, and ptarmiigan.

'Bother' is thought to be of Gaelic origin, too. Not sure about 'hard', it sounds pretty Anglo-Saxon to me (comes from OE heard according to Wiktionary, cf. German Härte, 'hardness').

Perhaps we should carry this on in the Language thread?
 

mos dan

fact music
a fun trip with a purpose and sort of plan is maybe even more fun than just a fun trip. also considering America as we have known it might not actually exist very much longer it might turn out to be an important historical document of sorts...

i don't know if it's a turning point in american history, but it's certainly the most exciting presidential race i can remember, with the most open field and the most interesting candidates (jesus christ, i mean how boring was john kerry, from a shallow politics-as-entertainment viewpoint?).

I've sent out some emails, will let you know if anything comes together. Could definitely assist passage from Rochester to New Hampshire tho :D Will let you know by PM what I find out, if anything works out activity-wise, etc etc.

we're actually cool for the journey from Rochester to NH i think, but thanks so much! we're meeting our friend who has a car in Rochester, so we'll be avec wheels from that point onwards.

however anyone who wants to link up for a drink, show us around their local area, participate in or invite us to activities or events, we would love to hear about. that goes for anyone in the US, anywhere!
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Bring your snow boots, Rochester is under about 4 feet of snow right now...the "snow belt" through upstate NY is pretty treacherous if you're not used to driving on snow-covered ice so be careful!
 
i don't know if it's a turning point in american history,

How would that be? Hilary Clinton will be 'elected', in the absence of course of the reps getting away with their on-going gerrymandering tactics (as you may know, US prezniz are never elected by popular vote, but are determined by the machinations of the elite Electoral Colleges, which is why the reps are currently changing the rules in their favour behind the scenes in California ... ).

but it's certainly the most exciting presidential race i can remember,

Really, what the fuck is particularly exciting about this pathologically cynical side-spectacle? Clinton is in already [everyone knows that the dems chose Obama, a black man, to oppose her for the nomination both to save white-man America's face and in the full knowledge that he hasn't a hope of being nominated against 'Clinton's wife'], someone whose foreign policies are indistinguishable from those of Bush (she fully supported the war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan, she supports 'getting tough' with Iran ... she's a fucked up, compromised political slut [look at the sources of her funding]. Period. Very exciting, isn't it? Just more Neo-conservatism with a friendly, multi-lateral face ...

with the most open field and the most interesting candidates

Open? Interesting?

Come again?

(jesus christ, i mean how boring was john kerry, from a shallow politics-as-entertainment viewpoint?).

Like, certified psycho 'dry drunk' Bush wasn't 'boring' or 'shallow'? I wouldn't simply dismiss Kerry - or Gore before him - as 'politics-as-entertainment' shallow, I'd dismiss the entire US political system in such terms (the problems with Kerry and Gore were their pompous-patrician and rational-debate demeanours, both no-nos in a base, reactionary soundbite political culture, not to mention their appalling policy hypocrisies.

And the Gop opposition: Giuliani? He's to Mussolini what Bush is to Hitler ... except that Hitler was actually elected.

Rant over. Place your bets now.
 
On Hillary Clinton's stated policies:

Hillary Clinton on International Law:

The current front-runner for the Democratic nomination for president shares much of President Bush's dangerous attitudes toward international law and human rights.

Though an overwhelming majority of Americans, according to public opinion polls, believe that human rights should be a cornerstone of American foreign policy, Senator Clinton has repeatedly prioritized the profits of American arms manufacturers and the extension of Washington’s hegemonic reach in parts of the world. Similarly, a Hillary Clinton presidency would simply be a continuation of the efforts by the Bush administration to undermine the UN Charter and the basic international legal framework in place for much of the past century. Historically, it has been the right wing of the Republican Party that has opposed international legal restrictions on the activities of the United States and its allies to advance America’s hegemonic agenda. Now, however, the front runner for the Democratic Party’s presidential nomination also shares this view, indicating a clear break with the internationalist and law-based principles espoused by such previous Democratic leaders as Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and Harry Truman. Indeed, Senator Clinton’s notions of what constitutes the legitimate use of force by the United States are so extreme, she would – if elected – likely become the most aggressive-minded Democratic president since James K. Polk.

The coming primaries and caucuses will test whether the Democratic Party can make a firm break with the hegemonic, unilateralist, and militaristic agenda of the Bush administration, or simply pursues an only somewhat nuanced version of the current dismissive attitudes toward human rights and international law that amounts to little better than Bush Lite.


Hillary the Favorite in Race for Jewish Donations :
New York's junior senator, Hillary Rodham Clinton, is expected to snare the lion's share of the Jewish community's substantial political donations in the race for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination.

Clinton Rakes In Cash From The US Weapons Industry
By Leonard Doyle in Washington

The US arms industry is backing Hillary Clinton for President and has all but abandoned its traditional allies in the Republican party. Mrs Clinton has also emerged as Wall Street's favourite.


Hillary Clinton calls Iran a threat to U.S., Israel:

Calling Iran a danger to the U.S. and one of Israel's greatest threats, U.S. senator and presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton said "no option can be taken off the table" when dealing with that nation

W and Hillary: Two Sides of the Same Coin
By Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich

Speaking at the Democratic National Convention's winter meeting, Presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton declared that once she becomes president, she would end the war in Iraq and restore the basic promise of America. Mrs. Clinton, who voted for the illegal invasion of sovereign Iraq, knows she must end the Iraq war in order to launch another - a war on sovereign Iran.

Hillary Clinton Chides Obama for saying Nukes would not be 'on the table' against "terrorists" :
Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Thursday he would not use nuclear weapons "in any circumstance" to fight terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan and drew criticism from chief rival Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Clinton gets boost from rabbi poll, calls for undivided Jerusalem :

In her new position paper on Israel, Hillary Rodham Clinton comes not only to praise the Jewish state but to bury doubts that she would be any less vigilant in its protection than the Bush administration.

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton: "We Stand With Israel Now and Forever" :

Clinton: "Make no mistake about it, the attack on the United States here in New York and at the Pentagon on September 11th comes from the same well of hatred and evil that stalks Israel. It is not possible for us to imagine confronting and winning the war against terrorism here and abroad, without our helping Israel win it at home."

Senate Urges Bush to Attack Iran:

Yesterday, Democratic Senators Hillary Clinton (NY), Chuck Schumer (NY), Bob Menendez (NJ), Barbara Mikulski (MD), and Ben Cardin (MD) all voted in favor of the "Kyl-Lieberman Iran Amendment." This piece of legislation actually encourages the practitioner of cowboy diplomacy, George W. Bush, to be even more belligerent in his foreign policy. The Kyl-Lieberman Amendment passed by a vote of 76 to 22. Chris Dodd and Joe Biden voted against it, and Barack Obama missed the vote.

Neocons, theocons, Demcons, excons, and future cons
By William Blum

Think of why you are opposed to the war. Is it not largely because of all the unspeakable suffering brought down upon the heads and souls of the poor people of Iraq by the American military? Hillary Clinton couldn't care less about that, literally. She thinks the American military has "succeeded". Has she ever unequivocally labeled the war "illegal" or "immoral"?
 
Yea this race is pretty much hopeless, Hillary has so many ties to big-business and is so ingrained in politics that nothing will change.

And now surging on the Republican side is an actual preacher with no concept of separation of church and state...

I do like Obama but his chances are very slim and I don't think he has the clout to ever be effective in Washington....

more doom, more gloom, more spiraling down the cesspool faster and faster, further and further...
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
I lost all respect for Hilary when she went to the center on abortion just to keep upstate NYers happy and secure her nomination.

Fuck that.

I'm not voting in NY, everyone knows our electoral votes always go dem, what's the point? Whoever the candidate is will be just another version of the same special-interest-indebted moron we've always had to vote for.

Wow@Hilary the zionist.
 
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tate

Brown Sugar
hundredmillionlifetimes;120374/ said:
... she's a fucked up, compromised political slut ...
For someone so attentive to racist and classist statements on the forum, your use of such a gender-specific and openly sexist term as "slut" to apply to any woman, no matter what their political positions may be, strikes me as highly problematic at best. I have other words for how I would describe your statment "at worst."
 
For someone so attentive to racist and classist statements on the forum, your use of such a gender-specific and openly sexist term as "slut" to apply to any woman, no matter what their political positions may be, strikes me as highly problematic at best. I have other words for how I would describe your statment "at worst."

I was wrong to merely call her a slut: such a term is too endearing. She's much worse, and god help the planet when she pursues her policies if or when she's 'elected.'

BTW, Thatcher was also a SLUT, and you're a pedantic one ... (in your amoral, de-politicized classically 'pure' world, calling Hitler a macho-posturing psycho-slut would also be an instance of gender-specific 'sexism'.)

Your a neo-con apologist and an idiot, tate.
 

tate

Brown Sugar
I was wrong to merely call her a slut: such a term is too endearing. She's much worse, and god help the planet when she pursues her policies if or when she's 'elected.'

BTW, Thatcher was also a SLUT, and you're a pedantic one ... (in your amoral, de-politicized classically 'pure' world, calling Hitler a macho-posturing psycho-slut would also be an instance of gender-specific 'sexism'.)

Your a neo-con apologist and an idiot, tate.
A post that makes my point so clearly it's well worth quoting again in full.
 
A post that makes my point so clearly it's well worth quoting again in full.

No, a post that exposes you as a shallow, vacuous wanker. If Clinton ACTUALLY positioned feminist concerns (something you know nothing about and have no interest in) as central to her policy formulation, she would not even have been nominated. Instead, she has ruthlessly betrayed such concerns by adopting a reactionary platform (on both domestic and forpol issues) that shits in the face of feminism, and all other progressive causes.

Again, she's a dangerous, fucked-up little slut, not even worthy of being a woman. And shame on you for your petty little attempt to defend 'her'.
 
For someone so attentive to racist and classist statements on the forum, your use of such a gender-specific and openly sexist term as "slut" to apply to any woman, no matter what their political positions may be, strikes me as highly problematic at best. I have other words for how I would describe your statment "at worst."

Oh quiet down...

Hillary Rodham Clinton most likely has every intention of lying herself down and opening up wide for all kinds of Neo-Liberal button pushers to keep the status quo of the power elite intact. So yes, she is very much a slut.
 

tate

Brown Sugar
Again, she's a dangerous, fucked-up little slut, not even worthy of being a woman. And shame on you for your petty little attempt to defend 'her'.

Oh quiet down...

Hillary Rodham Clinton most likely has every intention of lying herself down and opening up wide for all kinds of Neo-Liberal button pushers to keep the status quo of the power elite intact. So yes, she is very much a slut.
So hmlt is the judge of who's "worth of being a woman," that's interesting.

As my original post made clear, I wasn't defending any politician, I was objecting to the use of sexist language, an objection I would be more than happy to reiterate repeatedly in the face of heroesandvillians' "oh quiet down," and in response to both of the posts quoted here.

It does not matter to me in the least if every single person at dissensus disagrees with me. I'm perfectly fine with that.

The suggestion that sexist language is justifiable because it is "politicized" strikes me as dubious in the extreme, if in fact that was the suggestion upthread.

As I've made clear throughout, my comments have nothing to do with defending a particular politician.

You may call me whatever names you like, it is a public forum and you are of course free to do so.
 
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N

nomadologist

Guest
Be careful, HMLT, lest you end up agreeing with Anne Coulter on something. heh j/k

I should probably avoid this, but I'm going to go ahead and join in re the "slut" argument: I for one use terms like "pussy" and "whore" as pejoratives more often than I feel good admitting--of course, these don't apply exclusively to women. I don't know if I believe saying "slut" is necessarily sexist in every context anymore than I believe saying "nigga" in a hip-hop song is necessarily racist. Anyway I think focusing on that is point-missing and does ignore the fact that in the original post, HMLT said "political slut."

Moving on.
 

tate

Brown Sugar
Be careful, HMLT, lest you end up agreeing with Anne Coulter on something. heh j/k

I should probably avoid this, but I'm going to go ahead and join in re the "slut" argument: I for one use terms like "pussy" and "whore" as pejoratives more often than I feel good admitting--of course, these don't apply exclusively to women. I don't know if I believe saying "slut" is necessarily sexist in every context anymore than I believe saying "nigga" in a hip-hop song is necessarily racist. Anyway I think focusing on that is point-missing and does ignore the fact that in the original post, HMLT said "political slut."

Moving on.
With all due respect, nothing that you say here changes my mind.

But I'll let the posts in the thread speak for themselves, I'm perfectly happy with readers thinking whatever they like about what I've said.
 

TeN

Active member
I'd buy you waffles and talk about why I (and most people my age) don't vote, but you probably don't want to hear that
or maybe you do?
 

mos dan

fact music
I'd buy you waffles and talk about why I (and most people my age) don't vote, but you probably don't want to hear that
or maybe you do?

no we really, really do want to hear that. we're going out there to naively try and gauge the political temperature of the american people - which means chatting to *everyone*.

we are not writing any kind of traditional election blog. and i'm not a political journalist, and will not be using the blog as a mouthpiece for my views on the leading presidential candidates - this is about gauging everyone else's opinion.

furthermore, the waffles are on us :)
 

Guybrush

Dittohead
... a gender-specific and openly sexist term as "slut" ...

Like that would be a bad thing.
whoco5wu5.gif


I'd buy you waffles and talk about why I (and most people my age) don't vote, but you probably don't want to hear that
or maybe you do?

Because you hate democracy? Casting a blank vote is all right by me, but politically conscious abstainers are the dregs of humanity.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Like that would be a bad thing.
whoco5wu5.gif




Because you hate democracy? Casting a blank vote is all right by me, but politically conscious abstainers are the dregs of humanity.

You can't "cast a blank vote" in the states, we use voting machines that don't allow for that.
 

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
Casting a blank vote is all right by me, but politically conscious abstainers are the dregs of humanity.

Easy for those with a parliamentary system to say!

You can't "cast a blank vote" in the states, we use voting machines that don't allow for that.

Yah, they just automatically cast Bush votes!
 
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