Is this the end of the Reagan/Rove right?

nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
droid said:
Damn right. Downs has absolutely nothing to do with what the mother did or didn't consume during pregnancy.
Click to expand...

Actually, meth use can cause many problems during pregnancy--just because no one has yet proved any correlation between drug abuse and Down Syndrome doesn't mean that many doctors don't think there is one.

In any case, there is one scientifically proven way to raise your chances of having a Down baby, and that's conceiving after age 40. If she cares so much about the unborn, you have to wonder why Palin waited until she was 45 to have that baby.

I've heard lots of people claim the baby is actually her daughter's, but I really don't care whose it is. It needs to sleep, not be propped up in front of TV lights till all hours.
 
S

staypuft

bwah bwah
well at the very least the american populous knows what's up with Sarah Palin, regardless of who wins the election. it would have been depressing for the verdict to be silenced a la Rove-ian tactics, as was GWB's not-so-stellar military career.
 
sapphic_beats

sapphic_beats

Captain Crankypants
M

mms

sometimes
sapphic_beats said:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.mccain10oct10,0,7557571.story

really great article from a former mccain campaign guy, who is becoming very frustrated with the mccain campaign's catering to the fringiest of the fringe haters in america.

also, if you haven't seen this clip from the rachel maddow show on this very topic, here it is (complete with some historical context):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27093078#27125261
Click to expand...

terrifying.
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
staypuft said:
well at the very least the american populous knows what's up with Sarah Palin, regardless of who wins the election. it would have been depressing for the verdict to be silenced a la Rove-ian tactics, as was GWB's not-so-stellar military career.
Click to expand...

Excellent stuff. The Dems need to make sure they don't overplay it and let Palin play the 'poor me' act again. But then there's no need - the media will run the story for them, Palin's 'scary Obama' shit will sound even more hollow and her personal ratings wil dive again. And she's already the least popular candidate in the race.
Favourable/Unfavourable/Undecided
MCCAIN 41 51 8
OBAMA 58 32 10
BIDEN 58 30 12
PALIN 36 56 8
Click to expand...

http://www.dailykos.com/dailypoll/2008/10/11
 
STN

STN

sou'wester
nomadthesecond said:
Funny, isn't it, how all the meth strongholds in the U.S. also happen to be the states where you have the most foaming-at-the-mouth anti-government militia member secessionists (e.g. Palin's husband)?

Maybe it's not funny.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Washington State has a big meth problem (though maybe it doesn't count as a stronghold) and I like to think that doesn't have too many militia types, though it may share traits with states that do.
 
craner

craner

Beast of Burden
I have to concede, you were all quite correct to hate Palin straight from the blocks. In the last couple of weeks, she's proved herself to be incapable of office as well as personally unbearable. McCain himself, also incapable, possibly senile. But not quite as awful as the Republican residue who have taken to booing him for not considering Barack a TERRORIST. You have your President Obama, I think, and good luck. I do hope he makes a great one, or at least a good President. From here, it looks like the US is, well, fucked.

Also, it seems to be the case that running Alaska can't be very hard. She's thick as shit!
 
D

droid

Guest
nomadthesecond said:
Here's the thing, though, Droid...

I remember being in my Greek class during the 2000 election right after the election had clearly been stolen. My professor was a Jewish woman from NYC, and we talked about how hilarious it was that a county full of NY-transplants in southern Florida was somehow counted for Bush. People were livid. Everyone was. For months and months.

The problem with focusing on this issue, however, is that to the extent that democrats bring this up (rather than use their real policy advantage) they will be bracketed into the "politics of conspiracy theories and sore losers" column and given the fact that neo-conservative punditry rules the airwaves in 2000, democrats knew any loud complaints about conservatives stealing the election would be met with tremendous amounts of spin. Had democrats continued to complain about the rigged elections post-2000 they'd have no chance of winning the next few elections.
Click to expand...

Well I think thats a fair point, and something I was hinting at with the 'gentleman's agreement' idea. But again, this is all to do with the coarsening of American politics and the role of the media in American society. Its their job to raise hell about stuff like this - it would be hard to even imagine a more egregious breach of the fundamentals of democracy than massive vote rigging along (mainly) racial lines, so where's the outrage? That said - where is the coverage in Europe and the rest of the world?

This is the same thing Kerry (or at least some democrats) understood in 2004--it would have been a nightmare to take office without letting conservatives take their fair blame for their responsibility in the Iraq mess.
Click to expand...

Well I certainly hope this isn't true as its even more damning and fits in with Vimothy's points. If Kerry was happy to let the other side cheat its way in to avoid sipping from their poisoned chalice, what does that say about the Democrats? TBH, I think the kind of person who runs for president would be far too arrogant to abdicate power purely for strategic reasons...

Actually, meth use can cause many problems during pregnancy--just because no one has yet proved any correlation between drug abuse and Down Syndrome doesn't mean that many doctors don't think there is one.
Click to expand...

Actually it does. Downs occurs at conception as an accident of chromosome arrangement during meiosis, so what the mother does during pregnancy has no effect whatsoever on the condition. I don't want to get into a big argument about this, but I occasionally do some volunteer work with Downs kids and I tend not to see the funny side of these kinda jokes.

In any case, there is one scientifically proven way to raise your chances of having a Down baby, and that's conceiving after age 40. If she cares so much about the unborn, you have to wonder why Palin waited until she was 45 to have that baby.
Click to expand...

This is true. The chances go through the roof, and I think women who chose to get pregnant in their 40s need to be more aware of the fact.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
droid said:
Well I think thats a fair point, and something I was hinting at with the 'gentleman's agreement' idea. But again, this is all to do with the coarsening of American politics and the role of the media in American society. Its their job to raise hell about stuff like this - it would be hard to even imagine a more egregious breach of the fundamentals of democracy than massive vote rigging along (mainly) racial lines, so where's the outrage? That said - where is the coverage in Europe and the rest of the world?
Click to expand...

I agree, I wish I'd hear more about this. The only reason I can think of that the media don't cover it involves a certain Mr. Murdoch (he endorses Obama this time around I've heard...) and the stranglehold he and other media moguls (and regulatory agencies, and sponsors) have had in recent history on TV programming content.

Well I certainly hope this isn't true as its even more damning and fits in with Vimothy's points. If Kerry was happy to let the other side cheat its way in to avoid sipping from their poisoned chalice, what does that say about the Democrats? TBH, I think the kind of person who runs for president would be far too arrogant to abdicate power purely for strategic reasons...
Click to expand...

Well, if you don't believe Kerry might have realized it might not be politically advantageous for his party to win, then you'll have to concede that his campaign strategy was fundamentally idiotic or at very least misguided in a malignantly stupid way. And I happen to think Kerry is quite intelligent, especially where the ideological structural components of politics are concerned...

Actually it does. Downs occurs at conception as an accident of chromosome arrangement during meiosis, so what the mother does during pregnancy has no effect whatsoever on the condition. I don't want to get into a big argument about this, but I occasionally do some volunteer work with Downs kids and I tend not to see the funny side of these kinda jokes.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is certainly when Downs occurs. But eggs sit in the ovaries of a woman for her entire life from birth onward. The longer the eggs sit there, the more likely genetic mutations are to occur. The more drugs and other toxic substances a person takes internally or ingests or is exposed to, the more likely genetic mutations are to occur in the eggs. Sperm production, count and motility also drop significantly in men as they age. Marijuana use, for example, is known(proven) to lower sperm count and motility in users, including young men.

I have all sorts of sympathy for the mentally disabled and disordered. It's Palin whom I was taking issue with in that offhand and entirely facetious remark.
 
Last edited:
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Oh...my...

Droid, check out the article and comments here, if you're prepared to get *really* angry:

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/10/cnn-acorn-fraud-and-ties-to-obama/

There are conservatives who really think that their own party is entirely innocent of any vote rigging, and that ACORN's fake registrations (which can't be used to vote, since you need to bring a valid state ID to vote at the polls--after which you are eliminated from eligibility) can somehow lead to fake votes. I don't understand how they believe this will happen. Will ghosts show up with fake IDs and vote under the fake registrations?
 
D

droid

Guest
Especially strange considering the dead traditionally vote Republican...

This is of course the justification for tightening up voter registration laws, but there is such a minor incidence of voter fraud in the US (in some states none has been reported or alleged for over a century), that these claims should be carefully examined.

“The Democrats have registered five million illegal aliens,” the office of Arizona Republican pol Russell Pearce told me. 5,000,000?? Wow! We asked him to name just five – after all, they have to give their name and address to register. He could name ... zero."
(steal back your vote voter guide)
Click to expand...
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
Yep, the GOP has found this week's scare story. They're gravely concerned this could deliver a tainted election.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/15/uselections2008-democrats

"This election now has been tainted by something that is just plain wrong," he said. He raised the spectre of the 2000 elections, which was undermined by the hanging chad issue. "We believe that this is a potential nightmare," he said.

"The issue could be whether it is fair at all and whether the losing side believes it has been fairly defeated or it has been cheated."

Danforth's appearance yesterday at a press conference in Washington marked the first time such a prominent figure - Republican or Democrat - has questioned the legitimacy of the November 4 elections because of the dramatic rise in voter participation this year.
Click to expand...
 
D

droid

Guest
Well at least they're consistent in their use of preemptive strikes...
 
D

droid

Guest
McCain to challenge Obama on his 'terrorist connections' tonight. I wonder if he'll compare the weather underground to his own favourite narco-terrorists, the Contras (who specialised in attacking 'soft' civilian targets such as schools), to whom he gave political and financial support through his involvement with The U.S. Council for World Freedom.

WASHINGTON - GOP presidential nominee John McCain has past connections to a private group that supplied aid to guerrillas seeking to overthrow the leftist government of Nicaragua in the Iran-Contra affair.

McCain's ties are facing renewed scrutiny after his campaign criticized Barack Obama for his link to a former radical who engaged in violent acts 40 years ago.

The U.S. Council for World Freedom was part of an international organization linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America. The group was dedicated to stamping out communism around the globe.

The council's founder, retired Army Maj. Gen. John Singlaub, said McCain became associated with the organization in the early 1980s as McCain was launching his political career in Arizona. Singlaub said McCain was a supporter but not an active member in the group.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27062761/
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top