Is this the end of the Reagan/Rove right?

vimothy

vimothy

yurp
matt b said:
the problem is, economics focusses on 'productivity' (because it can be measured, no matter how crudely)- what about all the other stuff that is externalised, as ripley rightly mentions?
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I don't disagree, BTW, that a crude focus on productivity or even economic activity is nowhere near the full story of life.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
wow

Great points, Ripley.

Did anyone catch the interview with both McCain and Palin with Brian Williams? Check the body language--chilly. McCain is really impatient with her at points and makes little mystery of his dislike for her:


Also notice her pronunciation of "Ahmenidijad" as "Ahk-minajad" and Kim Jong Il as "Kim Jung Il". [This all happens even though she's clearly wearing an earpiece so she can be coached by campaign managers.) Ugh. If wanting a vice president who can pronounce very famous world leaders' names makes me an "elitist", so be it.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
vimothy said:
"History" refers to not private vs public property but to the unfortunate propensity humans have to do unpleasant things to one another. People aren't all bad. But they are occasionally, and those occasions are significant. People might be nice to you your entire life, but you only need to get killed once to really bring your averages down.
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Ok, let's say you're right about human "history." Why is it more logical to privilege the bad acts of humans over the good? Is there really some sort of imperative suggested by the propensity of humans to do wrong that mandates that we appeal to the absolute worst in human nature (as capitalism does, with greed, rewarding mediocrity, protecting white male entitlements, reinforcing the objectification of women as sex objects to sell products, which many believe contributes to the psychiatric issues that produce sociopaths such as rapists and serial killers, etc) [and yes, sociopaths are produced by society/environment/bad parenting] in our economic systems and governments?

Most social scientist point to data that suggests that people "live down" to low expectations, and "live up" to high expectations when society blesses them with these. The American public school system is a perfect example of this "expectations" effect.
 
R

ripley

Well-known member
vimothy said:
I don't disagree, BTW, that a crude focus on productivity or even economic activity is nowhere near the full story of life.
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and not the full purpose of government either..

re: enclosure - the argument hasn't extended, so far as I know, to the point that lots of historians say enclosure reduced productivity, so much as suggesting to start with than enclosure doesn't automatically increase productivity. Until fairly recently the positive relationship between private ownership and productivity was assumed by historians & economists (based on rather unscientific assertions of "human nature" which is perhaps why I misunderstood your use of the term), rather than being tested and proven by them. Of course that positive relationship is STILL recycled by the IMF and has been reinterpreted and reapplied w/r/t intellectual "property" too...

Anyway at best privatization doesn't seem directly correlated with productivity. The existence of other social factors make more of a difference.

I used to do a bit of work on this a few years back, but it's been a while. I think Judith Pallot talked about this w/r/t Russia.. and in Africa maybe Robert Bates? in economics it's the "institutionalists" who I think try to include in their models the idea that there are other things that affect people's decisions - i.e. the existence of institutions (including social ones). Some of those folks see themselves as "common property studies" scholars people like Elizabeth Minnich and the members of the International Association for the Study of the Commons. The main point being that when the other institutions line up well with a property system you get good stuff, and when not, at the very least, maybe not.

Also w/r/t the "Tragedy of the Commons" - my pet peeve. Even the inventor of the phrase (who was not a historian or an economist but a neo-malthusian ecologist) later said he should have called it a "tragedy of the unmanaged commons" which immediately highlights the social-institutions aspect. If management fails then it doesn't work, that's different from saying that it doesn't work flat out, and suggest that management, rather than the property system itself, is the problem.
 
D

droid

Guest
Al-Qaida endorse McCain

WASHINGTON — Al-Qaida supporters suggested in a Web site message this week they would welcome a pre-election terror attack on the U.S. as a way to usher in a McCain presidency.

The message, posted Monday on the password-protected al-Hesbah Web site, said if al-Qaida wants to exhaust the United States militarily and economically, "impetuous" Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain is the better choice because he is more likely to continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"This requires presence of an impetuous American leader such as McCain, who pledged to continue the war till the last American soldier," the message said. "Then, al-Qaida will have to support McCain in the coming elections so that he continues the failing march of his predecessor, Bush."

SITE Intelligence Group, based in Bethesda, Md., monitors the Web site and translated the message.

"If al-Qaida carries out a big operation against American interests," the message said, "this act will be support of McCain because it will push the Americans deliberately to vote for McCain so that he takes revenge for them against al-Qaida. Al-Qaida then will succeed in exhausting America till its last year in it."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/22/al-qaeda-supporters-endor_n_136779.html
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This threat of another attack is a genuine worry. Al-Qaida have proven themselves to be remarkably adept at manipulating American politics, and this is a perfect opportunity...
 
S

staypuft

bwah bwah
nomadthesecond said:
Did anyone catch the interview with both McCain and Palin with Brian Williams? Check the body language--chilly. McCain is really impatient with her at points and makes little mystery of his dislike for her:


Also notice her pronunciation of "Ahmenidijad" as "Ahk-minajad" and Kim Jong Il as "Kim Jung Il". [This all happens even though she's clearly wearing an earpiece so she can be coached by campaign managers.) Ugh. If wanting a vice president who can pronounce very famous world leaders' names makes me an "elitist", so be it.
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wow, what happened to her 'gosh darnit' isms from the debate? I thought running a country was easy as pie. and McCain defending Palin's experience? they will really do or say anything to win this one..


droid said:
This threat of another attack is a genuine worry. Al-Qaida have proven themselves to be remarkably adept at manipulating American politics, and this is a perfect opportunity...
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+
McCain will find it hard to reverse this overall position. So what can he do?

Provide shocks.

He is just about capable of turning the race for brief periods. His one chance of winning is that one of his small short-lived spikes coincides with election day.

His strategy therefore will not be the long grind of building a message and winning trust. It will be to pull rabbits out of hats. He has to keep turning the race to keep himself in it.

And then hope he has kept one bit of reckless surprise back big enough to win, to be timed right for the end of the race.
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C

crackerjack

Well-known member
droid said:
This threat of another attack is a genuine worry. Al-Qaida have proven themselves to be remarkably adept at manipulating American politics, and this is a perfect opportunity...
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They'd have been smarter not to flag up their attempt at manipulation beforehand.
 
D

droid

Guest
crackerjack said:
They'd have been smarter not to flag up their attempt at manipulation beforehand.
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Why? What difference would it make?

If there is a major terrorist attack on US soil tomorrow McCain would almost certainly win regardless.
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
droid said:
Why? What difference would it make?

If there is a major terrorist attack on US soil tomorrow McCain would almost certainly win regardless.
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What, even if AQ announced they'd done it specifically to get him elected? Maybe if they have Jedi Mind Tricks powers.

I also think the thought of President Palin makes a lot of people very nervous.
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
Considering there hasn't been a terrorist attack on American soil in seven years, it doesn't seem particularly likely now. Maybe another Bin Laden vid like last time, if he's even still alive.

I don't think an Obama victory is 100% certain, McCain has a slim chance if he picks up the right swing states, regardless of the popular vote.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
A University of Wisconsin poll yesterday had Obama up by 5-10% in:

Iowa
Edit: Illinois, not Indiana
Michigan
Wisconsin

Iowa, Illinois and Wisconsin rarely go democrat. If Obama has these McCain has literally no chance of winning.

Fucking hell Al Qaeda spent most of its money taking 10 years to plan a fucking planejacking. (Not that hard to do...) They're nowhere NEAR as powerful as people like to pretend they are. Yeah they got their bitchslap in on the towers, but does no one remember how those terrorists failed their attempts to bomb them in the early 90s?

They got their revenge, now they can simply sit back, do nothing, and still have the entire world scared shitless without spending another dime.

If Obama makes it into the White House, I'm more afraid of a new Timothy McVeigh than I am Al Qaeda...
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
swears said:
Considering there hasn't been a terrorist attack on American soil in seven years, it doesn't seem particularly likely now. Maybe another Bin Laden vid like last time, if he's even still alive.

I don't think an Obama victory is 100% certain, McCain has a slim chance if he picks up the right swing states, regardless of the popular vote.
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those swing states have now been narrowed down to
a) philadelphia (where he trails by 10 points)
b) er
c) that's it

He's effectively given up on Colorado and New Mexico, tho he could still retain Va. so he'd have to win Philly, keep florida and Ohio and pray none of the others (like N Carolina or Missouri) go Obama. It's loooking desparate for him (tho brilliant for anyone who still reckons he can win and fancies a flutter - current best odds 15/2)
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Just look at Obama's campaign contributions if you don't believe he has most of the country's support...675million is a record I believe.

Re Biden's latest "test the mettle of this guy" gaffe, it does kind of irk me that this was not some statement Biden made to the press, or on the "stump", but it was made in a closed-door meeting where some Rove-like attendant secretly taped the proceedings.
 
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C

crackerjack

Well-known member
This story should be cross-referenced with the "this week's most stupid criminal' thread.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5010471.ece

Republican volunteer who claimed a black man carved a “B” into her cheek after seeing a McCain bumper sticker on her car has confessed that she invented the story.

Pittsburgh police said that Ashley Todd, a white college student from Texas, is being charged with making a false report to police after she alleged that she was mutilated by a supporter of Barack Obama.
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As if the whole thing wasn't fantastically misguided anyway, it gets worse

It is not clear how she got the mark on her face but a photograph that has surfaced on the internet shows the “B” to be backwards, suggesting she may have cut it herself using a mirror.
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nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
You have to wonder, a) what kind of McCain supporter is 19-years-old and female? that alone seems weird enough, but also b) why did she post on her blog earlier that day whether anyone knew of ATMs on "the wrong side of town", as if no one would put 2 + 2 together, and c) why the Pittsburg police, who knew this was bullshit from early on, let any of this leak in the first place?

Apparently the girl has serious mental health issues and has done things like this before...
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
The fruits of anti-intellectualism...

Another footnote in the book of Palin (Ignorance is Bliss: How Know-Nothings Hijacked Political Discourse and Unintentionally Ruined the World Forever) was written this week, when she proved yet again that her cluelessness and anti-intellectualism know no bounds:

Palin on the importance of autism/special needs research funding and the "silliness" of fruit fly research

So, ok, maybe the average person would have no idea that fruit flies and other animals are absolutely essential to basic science and other research. But doesn't a public figure (like, say, the potential VP of the US) run this sort of thing by some scientists before she patly dismisses a scientific experiment--the merits of which she clearly does not understand herself--in public. Or maybe assign some advisors to her campaign who do understand these things?

If this is the neocon's next Reagan, heaven help them...
 
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