Dodgy Bad Taste Warrior Queen Lyrics

[noel emits]

so you dont think it is possible that an artist (or anybody for that matter) who is aware and has thought about the things he/she talks about can basically agree with the media or the government? Because in the end, anybody who thinks about it will discover the goverment and media all tell lies, and your truth is the only one possible? People disagreeing with you show a "lack of media savvy and critical thinking' as you call it. Thats pretty arrogant dont you think?

No, you are inferring a hell of a lot from what I'm saying which I hope is clear. Do I really need to back up and rewind the whole discussion and everything I've said? I think you should read what you just quoted again before replying so quickly.

You are the one who thinks that having a critical position on media / government propagated slogans implies some definite 'left wing' viewpoint.

It's just a line in a bleeding song. As i'm now bored of saying I found the turn of phrase a bit odd. Yeah she might have though it all through and decided that it was all about killing people 'in the name of Islam'. If she did well I disagree with that assessment.

 

[swears]

The left is eager to appropriate "youth culture", but that doesnt mean youth culture is left wing

Yeah, I see the history of youth culture in the last 50 years or so as tying in with the history of liberalism in the same period, rather than socialism. And that liberalism can grant the freedom to make a shedload of cash as much as the freedom to sleep around or take drugs or wear funny clothes.

 

[Mr. Tea]

The question for me is where did this idea of 'in the name of Islam' actually come from? The bombers said they were protesting about British troops killing people in Afghanistan and Iraq, as they saw it.

Funny that they don't make so much of a fuss about Afghans and Iraqis killing people in Afghanistan and Iraq, eh?

It's related to Islam because the people and countries involved are but it's not exactly the same thing and that phrase to me comes across as one of those repeated slogans like 'war on terror', 'axis of evil' etc.. It's no big deal really, it's just a song, but that's why the line kind of stuck in my craw a bit and why I can understand zhao's getting riled by it too.

If the perpetrators said they committed their acts in the name of Islam (or as part of some greater Islamic cause or however they phrased it) then they did commit them in the name of Islam.

 

[noel emits]

Funny that they don't make so much of a fuss about Afghans and Iraqis killing people in Afghanistan and Iraq, eh?

They don't make any fuss at all anymore.

I don't really expect people messed up enough to blow themselves up on a bus to be all that balanced in their views. Fuck, it's not like I'm agreeing with what they did or said.

If the perpetrators said they committed their acts in the name of Islam )or as part of some greater Islamic cause or however they phrased it) then they did commit them in the name of Islam.

Yes, but did they? Or is that more like how it was reported? I don't think much detail of what they had 'actually' said emerged for ages after the event, and the song.

 

[Mr. Tea]

No, you are inferring a hell of a lot from what I'm saying which I hope is clear. Do I really need to back up and rewind the whole discussion and everything I've said? I think you should read what you just quoted again before replying so quickly.

I think polz has a point here, though: there's been a definite position taken by some people in this thread that anyone who doesn't take the opposite line on any particular issue from the one taken by the government/mainstream media is necessarily brainwashed, ignorant or stupid (or 'right-wing').

Having said that, noel's right too, disagreeing with establishment politics doesn't necessarily make you left-wing, by any stretch: there are plenty of people who disagree with mainstream politics because they're well to the right of it. On many issues, coincidentally, this group would include no small number of Muslims.

 

[Mr. Tea]

They don't make any fuss at all anymore.

No, but there are others with similar views, who are preparing to make similarly violent sorts of 'fuss' in the future.

I don't really expect people messed up enough to blow themselves up on a bus to be all that balanced in their views. Fuck, it's not like I'm agreeing with what they did or said.

Yes, of course, and I wasn't implying that you were.

Yes, but did they? Or is that more like how it was reported? I don't think much detail of what they had 'actually' said emerged for ages after the event, and the song.

From the Wiki article on Mohammed Sidique Khan:

On September 1, 2005, a videotape emerged in which Khan gave his reasons for the attack. The videotape, shown by Al Jazeera Television, also shows Ayman al-Zawahiri who is believed to be the second-highest leader of Al Qaeda. The two men do not appear together, and it is believed that Al Qaeda was not connected with the bombing. [1] In the film, Khan declares "I and thousands like me have forsaken everything for what we believe" and refers to his expectation that the media would already have painted a picture of him in accordance with government 'spin'. He goes on to say "Your democratically elected governments continually perpetrate atrocities against my people all over the world. Your support makes you directly responsible. We are at war and I am a soldier. Now you too will taste the reality of this situation."

"What [he] believe" can only mean (his particular flavour of) Islam - which is to say, jihad. He then goes on to hold the general British public accountable for 'atrocities' against 'his people', which can only mean Muslims. Sounds pretty clear-cut to me.

 

[noel emits]

I think he's talking about feeling like his culture is under siege, which in a way it is. But the point I'm making is not about what they do or do not believe, it's about the specific phrase 'in the name of Islam' and it's provenance. I just found that line in the song unwieldy and I think the reason is the slight jolt felt at hearing someone on a record saying, repeating, what sounds to me like deliberately inserted political meme.

 

[noel emits]

so when evangelical christians kill doctors who perform abortions they are not religious fanatics, but people who feel like their culture is under attack. When do you call somebody a religious fanatic who performs atrocities in the name of his religion?

Mate, will please stop putting words in my mouth. This is ridiculous and has nothing at all to do with what I have said.

If you have a point of view or something to say then say it, stop inventing stuff that you'd like to think I've written. It is very rude.

 

[noel emits]

i thought you would understand that i was saying what your line of reasoning would mean in another situation, but it seems you didnt. I thought this way of making something more clear with comparisons was widely known, apparently it is not

The problem there is that what you wrote is in no way analogous to what I'm saying.

For the last time: "the point I'm making is not about what they do or do not believe, it's about the specific phrase 'in the name of Islam' and it's provenance. I just found that line in the song unwieldy and I think the reason is the slight jolt felt at hearing someone on a record saying, repeating, what sounds to me like deliberately inserted political meme." You know, it's my personal reaction to the song.

 

[noel emits]

please explain, it think they are totally the same

Bollocks, I can't explain it to you because what you wrote makes next to no sense and has nothing to do with what I was saying. It's about a phrase and my response to it. I'm not trying to justify anything. I was simply musing on my reaction to what happens when people repeat these catch phrases that are put out there by PRs and spin masters.

The reason I say that it sounds like these people felt like their culture was under siege is because it casts light on the meaning of what is meant by 'my people'. And just for cthe sake of tedious, tedious fucking clarity, I'm not saying they were not religious fanatcics, I'm not saying that no-one else in the world could ever have a grievance, and I'm not saying that blowing up people is everr fucking justified.

You seem to have an endless line in inventing things that you'd like to think I believe but you never come out with an opinion of your own or oyour position on this. Are you just trying to deny that someone might have some passing thoughts about a line in a song? Or are you just blindly defending an artist (who I'm not even attacking) because you liek her music / bottom?

 

[UFO over easy]

isn't the confusion stemming here from the fact that as a phrase 'in the name of Islam' makes no sense? terrorist actions obviously don't speak for the whole muslim community, and as such one mans action in the name of his religion is another man's terrorism in the name of feck all, even if sociologically they might be grouped together by idiots who write tabloids 'cos they both attend a mosque. Silly old warrior queen for adopting their language, imohmolimo.

is that what you're saying too noel? I kind of lost the strands of the argument.

 

[noel emits]

it think the specific phrase 'in the name of Islam' gives an accurate representation of what happened in reality. Four terrorists killed about 50 people in the name of islam, as they said themselves. To see it as a deliberately inserted political meme sounds like you are closing your eyes to reality. Thats my personal reaction to the song (and your reaction)

This shows that you understand nothing about 'spin'. The bombers themselves did not use this phrase as far as I know. It may or may not be but it sounds to me like a PR catchphrase. But anyway as for an accurate representation of reality, it is a partial and selective representation of the events. That is what 'spin' is. There are many other valid ways to characterise those events and their perpetrators' motivations and allegiences, some of which I would say are more complete than this handy reproducible and ultimately needlessly escalating soundbite.

 

[noel emits]

isn't the confusion stemming here from the fact that as a phrase 'in the name of Islam' makes no sense? terrorist actions obviously don't speak for the whole muslim community, and as such one mans action in the name of his religion is another man's terrorism in the name of feck all, even if sociologically they might be grouped together by idiots who write tabloids 'cos they both attend a mosque. Silly old warrior queen for adopting their language, imohmolimo.

is that what you're saying too noel? I kind of lost the strands of the argument.

Yes indeed, thanks. That is pretty much it. And the fact that the phrase smacks of manipulative sloganeering, but not by WQ or dem bomber claats.

The line always jumped out at me and with zhao raising his strong gut reaction to it in this thread I realised why. It's really just about my reaction to it and seeing how these phrases go to work.

 

[noel emits]

my position:
an artist in a song talks about her fear of terrorism and about the fear of being killed herself after terrorists killed 50 people in the name of islam.
somebody on a forum has this reaction to this song:

OK, but there's that phrase again. Why do you feel so comfortable repeating it?

so the artist is called a war monger, a puppet of the state and mainstream media, who exacerbates current problems of racism and xenophobia. And that because she is afraid of being killed.

I haven't said that, maybe someone else has. It's not about any of those things (for me) but about how these perniciously slanted slogans work their way through the language.

I see this reasoning of slating everyone who dares to criticize islam more and more often, people are willing to give up free speech out of some down with us stance or just out of fear. I will protest vehemently everytime is see this, because i think it is very dangerous.

I guess this is aimed at zhao but it's not what I'm doing.

For a start I don't think WQ was criticising Islam. But I've got no problem criticising any of these religions. I understand where your coming from with that, I hate that attitude too. All the bullshit pussyfooting around about tolerance and cultural relativity and so on is garbage.

 

[Mr. Tea]

isn't the confusion stemming here from the fact that as a phrase 'in the name of Islam' makes no sense? terrorist actions obviously don't speak for the whole muslim community...

Here's the rub, though: they think they do. Or that any Muslim who doesn't agree with their cause is a sell-out, a slave of the West, somehow not a 'real' Muslim at any rate.

 

[noel emits]

'Stop killing people for your religion.'

'Killing in the name of religion is stupid.'

'You're not a real Muslim if you can't find a better solution.'

'These people were disaffected young men with their own problems who mapped them on to their ideas about Islamic identity.'

'Young people have needs for causes, rites of passage and ways to prove themselves and some religious fanatics and lunatics pray on this.'

Maybe they even genuinely felt unbearable pain at the thought of their relatives living under bombs. It doesn't excuse anything and it doesn't make them the only ones but it's also clearly not just about 'Islam', right? It's a human issue.

You know, there are many other way to skin this halal cat. Maybe someone can dig up the video or diary where one of these guys actually says 'I am going to do this in the name of Islam'.

 

[droid]

I see this reasoning of slating everyone who dares to criticize islam more and more often, people are willing to give up free speech out of some down with us stance or just out of fear. I will protest vehemently everytime is see this, because i think it is very dangerous.

:slanted: Yeah, your courageous defence of free speech is a shining example to the rest of us :

When i was young death threats were virtually non existent, and the word HATE was very little used. I blame islam(ic culture) for the resurgence of these kinds of behavior.

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=7241&page=8

This thread is bullshit btw. Warrior Queen has every right to say her piece and it makes sense in the context of the tune. She may be a pretty shite MC, but I don't think she should be called out for this.

 

[noel emits]

Warrior Queen has every right to say her piece and it makes sense in the context of the tune. She may be a pretty shite MC, but I don't think she should be called out for this.

I'm not really calling her out, and I enjoy some of what she does. It's the dislocating experience of hearing a phrase like that somewhere you don't expect it. No blame.

 

[UFO over easy]

Here's the rub, though: they think they do. Or that any Muslim who doesn't agree with their cause is a sell-out, a slave of the West, somehow not a 'real' Muslim at any rate.

this kind of goes without saying though dunnit?

so following on from this, you could interpret warrior queens line in a couple of different ways -

you can't go around killing people in the name of islam - as in, don't go around doing that, it sucks

you can't go around killing people in the name of islam - as in, it's actually impossible to do so, not only because they're not speaking for all followers of the religion but also because these terrorist acts are examples of unmuslim behaviour (can you say that in the same way you can say unchristian?)

I like the second one better, but it's probably less likely

 

[UFO over easy]

I'm embarrassed for you.