The sacred cows
crackerjack
Well-known member
1st album is great, 2nd album is greater. it did become a bit token rap album for rock crits (file next to What's Going On and Exodus), but that's hardly their fault. Agree the production can be a bit wearing after 30 mins +, which is why I've always preferred By All Means Necessary and Strictly Business from that era.
crackerjack
Well-known member
and Gumdrops bang on about Purple Rain. Horrible song, fucking zippo music.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
No way....just for some reason no-one's allowed to criticise Prince (a true sacred cow...). I LOVE his songwriting, but comparing Timbaland's version of When Doves Cry with the original, for example, there's only one winner.....and it wasn't recorded in the '80s.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
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baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Interesting...not sure what to say to make someone 'get it'....for me the very dense, kinda atonal use of sampling and the sheer energy is thrilling.
I can see how Chuck D would put some people's backs up...I like his rapping a lot, but not sure how great/easy to listen to it is technically compared to, say, Ice Cube. Would Public Enemy work half as well without Flav?
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baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
B-b-b-b-ut he brought the song out brilliantly.
not heard it since it came out but that cover was so flaccid i thought. timbalands production/rhythm programming was on auto pilot... i think thats a hard song to cover. like kiss. just cos its so minimal. even when prince does it live, cos those 2 songs are so much about the production, its hard to make it sound right live unless you stick really close to the original.
philblackpool
gamelanstep
I think its only 80s Prince that is 'sacred' really...he's been very up & down in people's ratings since then.
I was also scratching my head that anyone would think he was better in the 90s than the eighties, but I'm not totally averse to the nineties stuff to be honest.
I guess some of the eighties stuff has dated, yeah, but I thought that was all back in this decade?
Nothing wrong with something being of its time, I reckon.
The thing with Prince for me is that on the whole even one of his not-so-good albums is still really funky & vibrant - they just look a bit pale sat next to the ones with the massive hits on.
I'm all for 'zippo music' if the guy's doing it right. I turn off when a band that plays stadiums becomes a 'stadium band' & starts adopting that sorta 'stadium' sound, & I don't think I'd include much Prince in that category.
I was also scratching my head that anyone would think he was better in the 90s than the eighties, but I'm not totally averse to the nineties stuff to be honest.
I guess some of the eighties stuff has dated, yeah, but I thought that was all back in this decade?
Nothing wrong with something being of its time, I reckon. The thing with Prince for me is that on the whole even one of his not-so-good albums is still really funky & vibrant - they just look a bit pale sat next to the ones with the massive hits on.
I'm all for 'zippo music' if the guy's doing it right. I turn off when a band that plays stadiums becomes a 'stadium band' & starts adopting that sorta 'stadium' sound, & I don't think I'd include much Prince in that category.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
Dunno if he's been mentioned... But, yeah, Timbaland's a bit of a sacred cow.
WORSE HOWEVER, is Missy Elliot.
A bit of flawed logic I notice; Missy Elliot's songs usually end up being about one thing, how men want to fuck her. Nothing wrong with that, that doesn't differ from too many female rappers. BUT! She's the only one, where critics claim 'She's an iconoclast', and 'Pushing the gender boundaries'.
One time, I saw Bjork saying "She's a real artist. She's not trying to be sexy and showing her tits!"
No you fucking idiots, it's because her weight class would make that look gross. Jesus, Missy Elliot is no different than any other female rapper, except she's fat. And by default, people have this preconceived notion that she's not trying to be seductive, because she's fat. And somehow, that means "One-Minute Man" is on an artistic plateau above say "Ain't No N***A" or "Get Money". Huh?
Also, her 'production' is all Timbaland. If it isn't the man himself, it's incredibly derivative... It's not like say, Danja, where the guy leaves, and it doesn't sound the same anymore. Missy Elliot is as inessential as Pras to the Fugees.
WORSE HOWEVER, is Missy Elliot.
A bit of flawed logic I notice; Missy Elliot's songs usually end up being about one thing, how men want to fuck her. Nothing wrong with that, that doesn't differ from too many female rappers. BUT! She's the only one, where critics claim 'She's an iconoclast', and 'Pushing the gender boundaries'.
One time, I saw Bjork saying "She's a real artist. She's not trying to be sexy and showing her tits!"
No you fucking idiots, it's because her weight class would make that look gross. Jesus, Missy Elliot is no different than any other female rapper, except she's fat. And by default, people have this preconceived notion that she's not trying to be seductive, because she's fat. And somehow, that means "One-Minute Man" is on an artistic plateau above say "Ain't No N***A" or "Get Money". Huh?
Also, her 'production' is all Timbaland. If it isn't the man himself, it's incredibly derivative... It's not like say, Danja, where the guy leaves, and it doesn't sound the same anymore. Missy Elliot is as inessential as Pras to the Fugees.
tend to hate all the stones' slow 'down home' blues and country type songs. only really like them when theyre doing harder rock numbers. (might have posted this already in this thread).
thats true about missy. her greatest gift is that somehow she seemed to inspire timbaland to make great beats, despite not actually being very great herself. shes actually prob one of the crappest female rappers ever (but then timbaland has a weakness for crap artists in his camp - see ms jade, bubba sparx, etc etc). but basically shes terrible without timbaland. i wish shed go away now, i dont need to her ruining any more perfectly good ciara or keshia cole songs. cant tolerate her rapping/singing about sex either. for the same reasons crowley (otm btw) said she doesnt show her tits.
thats true about missy. her greatest gift is that somehow she seemed to inspire timbaland to make great beats, despite not actually being very great herself. shes actually prob one of the crappest female rappers ever (but then timbaland has a weakness for crap artists in his camp - see ms jade, bubba sparx, etc etc). but basically shes terrible without timbaland. i wish shed go away now, i dont need to her ruining any more perfectly good ciara or keshia cole songs. cant tolerate her rapping/singing about sex either. for the same reasons crowley (otm btw) said she doesnt show her tits.
crackerjack
Well-known member
Missy is technically rubbish, but rapping is at least 50% charisma and she's got it in buckets (big, big buckets). And there's a lot to be said for a fat woman talking openly and humourously about sex in a genre which has consistently, often viciously, objectified women.
And Ain't No Nigga and Get Money are shite.
And Ain't No Nigga and Get Money are shite.
get moneys great. lil kims hardcore has loads of good tracks on it actually. she was really good when she first came out - genuinely funny and sharp in a millie jackson (albeit written mostly by biggie) kinda way. never really been a big missy fan (even tho i do have all the albums) so i dont get the charisma thing. i dont really find her all that likeable tbh.
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baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
hear hear....
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
She's not being tongue-in-cheek, see, that's my point. She's no different than the songs you described as shite.
But no, wait, there's totally nothing funny about those girls lyrics? Even though I still put on 'Ain't No Nigga' to openly laugh at the days when Jay-Z COULD allow somebody to mock him; And Kim's songs are all totally playful. No, they're shit, and the stupid hick doing stuff like "*MOAN* Give it to me daddy and *MOAN* Yep, yep, like Teddy..."... Yeah, that's totally subversive.
Though I'm guessing you're probably basing some of that in the fact that Missy's horrible rhymes are purely of her own devices, and for the other girls, at least one is well-known to need ghostwriters (Biggie... Maino was the last one Kim was relying on to my knowledge) and one who may be ghostwritten as well.
Though, truth be told, Timbaland's crew is the one team that I wish to GOD had been given some ghostwriters. I mean, they really, REALLY sucked at hip-hop at first.