The sacred cows

[MrFence]

7" Singles; they sound crap, always.

Albums; The singles you liked, minus the interesting B-Sides and plus a load of filler.

Grime; Almost a decade of releases with about three years worth of innovation and lot of shouting 'Rah'. Ahem... I'll get me coat.

The Wire; clichéd, wooden characters with lives that extended no further than the plot, which itself was predictable and badly paced. That scene where they said nothing but 'fuck' was embarrassing.

 

[Tentative Andy]

also, come on now Shackleton is hardly a sacred cow is he? certainly not one that's going to set people off.

Well yeah, I was probably being over-catious as usual. But I swear I'd never seen a negative comment about him on here, in contrast to a fair number of gushingly praising ones. Maybe just not enough people care about/follow him closely enough I guess.

 

[Slothrop]

Well yeah, I was probably being over-catious as usual. But I swear I'd never seen a negative comment about him on here, in contrast to a fair number of gushingly praising ones. Maybe just not enough people care about/follow him closely enough I guess.

Kode 9 or Mala would be my shouts.

But I don't not like either of them.

Do you have to be not as good as you're made out to be to be a sacred cow, though, or is it just that even if you did make something rubbish, everyone would still pretend it was great?

 

[Tentative Andy]

To my mind it's to do with an apparent general immunity from criticism, so your latter point more than your former. Being overrated is just being overrated. Other people may attach different meanings to it though, obv.

 

[gumdrops]

i hate neighbourhood too. the singings great. mcing is shit.

wiley isnt shit. hes brilliant. but his brilliance makes all his misfires/average output/erraticism even more annoying. its one of the most maddening things about him (i dont find it fascinating or any sort of incredible insight into his genius, sorry wiliam fans). the shit wiley tunes are shit tunes, just cos theyre by wiley it doesnt make them any better!

also, i hate pow (fwd riddim). well i dont hate it anymore, but i did for a long time. i think its poorly produced (not even in a good raw demo-ish way, whatever that means nowadays anyway) and its not mixed well at all (he got better at mixing vocals later on). its not like i hate dexplicit or anything, i think hes made a lot of total classics, but as a song/record, pow isnt one of my favourites. a few great verses aside (not fumins though) it just sounds too amateurish.

 

[Client Eastwood]

I look at Shackleton like I guess some people look at really complex jazz. It's cool, but more often than not, it goes over my head. Shackleton's cool as far as music to get lost into, but it's not... Dare I say, appealing?

As a predominatly home listener the I still put on Shack tunes for a listen on a regular basis when it comes to dubstep. Its the complexity of the rhythms that keeps me coming back for more. But I would say that he might now needs to throw a bit more into the mix for me to buy further releases. Some eastern strings
plucking business perhaps.

 

[craner]

I agree with the Zed Bias nomination, along with the entire 2001/02 proto-dupstep thing. I loathed '138 Trek'. Or "Bingo Beats" - just horrible. And Ed Case! Hopeless. Hopeless. And Wookie too. 'Battle' was appalling.

 

[alex]

^ i am in disbelief at that lol..

Flo Dan...why does everybody in dubstep like him so much?, he is so shit!!. His flow is not half as good as shizzle's, trim's (when he does a yard) or badness, fucking hell even jamakab is better, he is diabolical, especially on skeng..that track is shite...

 

[Corpsey]

Melody is shit. Rhythm is shit. Everything I own is shit. Everything I don't own is probably shit.

 

[gumdrops]

^ i am in disbelief at that lol..

Flo Dan...why does everybody in dubstep like him so much?, he is so shit!!. His flow is not half as good as shizzle's, trim's (when he does a yard) or badness, fucking hell even jamakab is better, he is diabolical, especially on skeng..that track is shite...

he did used to be good though - now he just seems unmotivated and recycles what i swear is the same verse over and over. dubstep ppl just like him cos he sounds a bit dancehall-ish and has some rasta references in his lyrics every so often. but yeah, theres other JA music-influenced guys im surprised arent getting more work from the dubstep lot (jamakabi, riko, etc etc).

 

[nomos]

'Battle' was a bit twee but it's hard to argue with his Manchu material or that Sia remix.

 

[CrowleyHead]

he did used to be good though - now he just seems unmotivated and recycles what i swear is the same verse over and over. dubstep ppl just like him cos he sounds a bit dancehall-ish and has some rasta references in his lyrics every so often. but yeah, theres other JA music-influenced guys im surprised arent getting more work from the dubstep lot (jamakabi, riko, etc etc).

Fuck, Even Killa P's throwing him aside.

I know the whole 'underrated' thing isn't really the point of this thread... But I'm seriously wondering why Badness isn't a top 5 for anybody? Is he incredibly lyrical? Nei... But god DAMN! The man spits like fire, does yard and chat like nothing, sings well, and it could be over just about anything. Badness oozes talent, and I rarely see him given the attention of... even an Ice Kid!

 

[Sick Boy]

but it's hard to argue with his Manchu material or that Sia remix.

Or his 'Sincere' remix, or 'Storm', or 'Far East', or 'Down On Me', or 'Scrappy'.

Anyway Wookie isn't a sacred cow. He doesn't have a big enough body of work or the cultural capital to be one. Maybe Zed Bias can be seen to be one within the dubstep community, but not much beyond that.

 

[gumdrops]

I'm seriously wondering why Badness isn't a top 5 for anybody? Is he incredibly lyrical? Nei... But god DAMN! The man spits like fire, does yard and chat like nothing, sings well, and it could be over just about anything. Badness oozes talent, and I rarely see him given the attention of... even an Ice Kid!

(mostly but not always) too annoying on sets. i usually just want him to shut up. i think id even take dogzy, syer b or discarda over him lol.

i like him on various tracks like bullet a go fly though. was tempted to get that lava unit mix cd but didnt want to chuck yet more money down the grime drain.

 

[Sick Boy]

I know the whole 'underrated' thing isn't really the point of this thread... But I'm seriously wondering why Badness isn't a top 5 for anybody?

He was until P Money recently booted him out for that slot. He is really good though, he brings something fresh and new to the "yardie" style of grime MCing. I have heard though that his use of patois is pretty much nonsense though. Which sort of makes me like him more.

Wiley is totally a sacred cow. I will accept that. If you aren't one of those people who are completely fascinated by him, then a sizeable amount of his work is not going to do it for you. I, however, am one of those people.

EDIT: I'm starting to think that in order to be a sacred cow, a portion of your work has to be genius. The sacred cow status develops when all that artist's work is viewed in the context of the genius-inspired work. You can't really have an all-shit sacred cow.

 

[Tentative Andy]

As annoying catchphrases go, his "oookaaaayyy has to be right up there for me, I'm afraid. I quite like him otherwise.
I also prob rate Killa P above Flo Dan. Jah War was really good though. Even if you might say that his grasp/interest in the rasta stuff doesn't go too deep, his flow just fits really well with the tune + beats.

 

[Tentative Andy]

. I have heard though that his use of patois is pretty much nonsense though. Which sort of makes me like him more.

Tbh I tend to assume that for all of the British patois MCs the voice is largely an assumed one. It's a well established convention in grime by now, to some extent in dubstep too.
It does irritate me when MCs just trade on having the accent above having any actual skills though, like with Jamakabi for instance. Although to be fair it seems that he's widely accepted as being crap.



Edit: assume + assumed in the same sentence, very poor phrasing. Apologies.

 

[gumdrops]

i quite like jamakabi actually. agreed, on badness overusing his catchphrases. there is only so much LAVAAAAA and OKAAAYYYYYY you should have to bear

 

[tom lea]

can't believe there's someone who doesn't like 138 trek. always assumed that was impossible.

 

[gumdrops]

as far as dubstep sacred cows, i hate tracks like HP's gorgon sound. ugh. sounds so deficient.