The sacred cows

[swears]

Aphex Twin, BOC, Authechre etc.

Yeah, I'd say a lot of these Warp acts' back catalogues are a bit patchy with occasional flashes of brilliance, too much noodling around.

But are they really sacred cows anymore? Aren't they considered a bit nerdy and whitebread, a bit too much like the rockist idea of auteurs to be considered important in dance circles these days?

 

[Sick Boy]

Ever since the indie rock crowd decided to give up their pretensions and actually go to nightclubs, I'm sure something "intelligent" like Aphex Twin doesn't have the same weight it used to.

 

[Amplesamples]

I love AFX. His first Ambient Works album got me totally turned on to electronic music - without him I wouldn't have discovered jungle, breakcore, detroit techno etc.
So I'm prepared to forgive any shite stuff he might have produced (such as a lot of his Druqks record). Richard D James album is still amazing - don't know how people can say there's a lot of 'noodling around. That seems a lazy and thoughtless generalisation.

But what about Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica album? Will anyone step up and admit that it's truly awful (with the possible exception of Ella Guru)?

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

have to second that - that's bollocks about Aphex. dude's been up his own arse for well over a decade now but nearly everything up to (but not including) SAW II is great. I mean; Didgeridoo, Phloam, Polynomial-C, On, half the tunes on SAW 85-92, the Caustic Window 12"s & on & on. dude really was doing a ton of innovative stuff, opening up directions that other people hadn't even thought existed. sure groupie worship & the inevitable massively inflated ego & resulting creative decay set in rather quickly but that shouldn't detract from the early brilliance. nor should the legions upon legions of pale imitators. both those things could go for most sacred cows I think.

I'd also like to pre-emptively defend B12 and The Black Dog as long as we're on the topic of Brit techno sacred cows. Tho I'm just fine w/calling out Autechre & BOC.

 

[Tentative Andy]

Pavement. Though maybe quite so securely as in the past.
This thread needs more gumdrops.

 

[nomadthethird]

All of the above, esp. Sonic Yoof
and after reading some reviews about her last plop, Madonna too.
"4 minutes" - of what ? gawd that video, the corset.
Unessential product.

Just an excuse for a collaboration with Justin Timberlake and Timbaland, another attempt to seem like one of the cool kids. That song really was an abomination wasn't it?

 

[mms]

I'd also like to pre-emptively defend B12 and The Black Dog as long as we're on the topic of Brit techno sacred cows. Tho I'm just fine w/calling out Autechre & BOC.

really b12?

techno muzak for the most part with moments of brilliance ... black dog on the other hand - great.

 

[Tentative Andy]

Really though, are there such things as fully-blown sacred cows nowadays? Or indeed have there ever been? The whole structure of critical taste seems to require that if an artist is receiving gushingly praising notices from a large number of people, sooner or later someone will attempt to gain kudos by 'daring' to voice their dissaproval of them (of course I am just as guilty of this as anyone is). There is definitely this paradoxical situation wherby being widely designated as cool is likely to in itself be a reason for an artist to become uncool in the long run; hence the perennial accusation of so-and-so being 'overrated'.

 

[evanbbb]

Eno

 

[evanbbb]

Not much ribbing of Reggae, Dub, Soul, Blues, Jazz on this thread.

Reggae
Marley - Somebody must have said that by now...maybe I missed it
Lee Perry

Soul/Funk
James Brown - should have stopped ages ago
Al Green - first couple albums great, but dude fell off
George Clinton
Stevie Wonder
Curtis Mayfield

 

[mistersloane]

Eno

I submitted a proposal to ArtAngel once for funding for an exhibition called
'Brian Eno Lives Up My Arse',
the proposal consisted of little drawings of Brian Eno living in my arse, alongside a letter saying 'Give us the fucking money'.

We posted it off to them too, but never heard back.

 

[massrock]

John Coltrane

 

[evanbbb]

I submitted a proposal to ArtAngel once for funding for an exhibition called
'Brian Eno Lives Up My Arse',
the proposal consisted of little drawings of Brian Eno living in my arse, alongside a letter saying 'Give us the fucking money'.

We posted it off to them too, but never heard back.

Should have sent photos instead. Might have worked.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

really b12?

techno muzak for the most part with moments of brilliance ... black dog on the other hand - great.

well not so much the B12 material on Warp (tho the 1st LP has some great bits). more the stuff they did under aliases on their own label - Cmetric, Musicology, Redcell, etc.

techno muzak = The Orb. that's one that'll never make sense to me. I'm sure it was a "you had to be there" kinda deal.

 

[mms]

well not so much the B12 material on Warp (tho the 1st LP has some great bits). more the stuff they did under aliases on their own label - Cmetric, Musicology, Redcell, etc.

techno muzak = The Orb. that's one that'll never make sense to me. I'm sure it was a "you had to be there" kinda deal.

sure, i did say a few moments, musicology etc, fantastic.

yes the orb, i tried, i took all the right drugs, didn't do it for me.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Lee Perry

James Brown - should have stopped ages ago
George Clinton

the rest maybe - esp. Stevie Wonder who I've never been able to stand - but these 3, no way. tbs they all put out of a lot of awful crap, have sketchy discographies, kept going way after they'd run out of ideas, etc. but seriously - we're not talking about some shambling mealymouthed indie rock garbage or some 3rd-rate ambient house producer. we're talking about dudes who wholly reconfigured the face of popular music in their day.

OTOH some what are dunno if they've been mentioned:
Black Flag
A Tribe Called Quest (Q-Tip as a producer is pretty great tho)

 

[massrock]

Defending alleged sacred cows only proves the point.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Defending alleged sacred cows only proves the point.

duh really? that slipped past me entirely. thanks for clarifying that, you're a sharp one mate.

there's a difference between defending infallibility & defending worth.

 

[massrock]

duh really? that slipped past me entirely. thanks for clarifying that, you're a sharp one mate.

Is the sarcastic insult really called for?

Honestly, take a joke in the spirit it was intended. I put the bleedin' smiley in there.

 

[evanbbb]

Liking this thread. How about some hiphop then...

Dre
Biggie
Eric B
Clipse
MF Doom
Krs-One
Wiley

How about J Dilla? He never got as much cred when he was alive. IMO he isn't worth all the inches.