wonky

mms

sometimes
it's a pretty odd piece, reading it again, conflating a drug he's not taken with music he's dismissed to an extent as neo idm, it's got him on the backfoot really, honestly, i think and he's struggling to work out how to describe it. 'wonky' or whatever is certainly the pilliest and exhuberant of the 'post garage' sub genres if that's what he's describing it as, which is also something which i don't think wonky is at all. However it's almost certainly an escape from the dirgey miasma of dubstep into something more colourful and rhythmically snappy. It's also not quite as easy to define as he's reducing it out to be. At the empirical level, go to a club where you might hear this music, like Benji B's nights for instance, occassionally, and you damn sure ain't going to find anyone on something as grungy as ketamine, (which i've never heard being described as wonky, although wonky donkey is an old crazy d phrase mc phrase, but its a description of beats and not a shout out to the ket posse. ) The audiences are usually very clean, dressed up, street wear fashionable really.
 
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Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
So we are actually getting whole nights based around the wonky flavours now? Not to be a twat, but what do peopledo there - sort of shuffle about lopsidedly all night?
 

mms

sometimes
So we are actually getting whole nights based around the wonky flavours now? Not to be a twat, but what do peopledo there - sort of shuffle about lopsidedly all night?

oh not this again, ppl seem to be missing the point i think... :)
No people dance and wonky isn't a genre.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
oh not this again.

Haha that was kind of the response I was expecting.
I agree it's not a genre, it's more of a strategy applied to various genres. And I'm at a very early stage of investigating it. But... take certain features that have been prevalent so far, like the un-quantised drums - doesn't that make it difficult to dance to, because you can't lock into a groove? Genuine question rather than rhetorical, as I haven't been to any of these nights yet.
 

ether

Well-known member
Ive never been quite sold, but checking the soundclips for his new album some of it is quite nice
http://www.kindred-spirits.nl/dorianconcept/



I was quite disappointed by his last ep, and don't quite know what to make of the album (arc light on the ep is gorgeous tho!) Really love a lot of Mark Pritchards stuff throughout the years and the Harmonic 33 stuff is ace, but somehow with his stuff as harmonic 313 lately, I kind of get the feeling of a really accomplished producer tapping into the same ideas as some of the younger wonky guys mentioned above but the result feels more tame and polished in a way.

That Jamie Vex'd lucky me mix is huuuuge! Listened 4 times in one day.

I'm not really feeling the harmonic 313 tbh, it feels a bit contrived there seems to be a lack of any real ideas, no geater than the sum of its influences really.

I feel completely different about somebody like hud mo who's tracks are jammed packed full of great ideas and wigged out arrangements shame they only last two minutes.
 
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mms

sometimes
Haha that was kind of the response I was expecting.
I agree it's not a genre, it's more of a strategy applied to various genres. And I'm at a very early stage of investigating it. But... take certain features that have been prevalent so far, like the un-quantised drums - doesn't that make it difficult to dance to, because you can't lock into a groove? Genuine question rather than rhetorical, as I haven't been to any of these nights yet.

well the rhythms keep on changing, the unquantised drums often just have a live feel, they make sense in a mix, but sure sometimes you're left there not dancing for a little bit, but you might get that anyway with beatless passages before tracks break with another type of music these are sort of scrambles rather than beatless, it was interesting to hear benji b complain hudson mohawkes tracks were too short on his show recently as he played the track seamlessly twice in a row. Also people have danced to unquantised rhythms for a long time too. It's a rhythm thing more than anything else i think. The track titles seem to reference the phrase 'psychedelic' more than any other drug related phrase too.
 
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ether

Well-known member
anyone check that floating points mix from the breeze block back in jan, absolutely wicked, nicely bridging the gap between beat makers and that martyn shuffle,
only really heard benji-b and alexander nut play his beats, hopefully some should hit wax soon.

I'm feeling ghosts on tape and some of those cali, producers alot also. did anyone manage to get hold of take's mix cd that came out recently? it was sort of a bootleg thing which had sold out at SOTU by the time I heard about it.

plus can anyone up that free poo-bah mix, cant seem to find it anywhere's?
 
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mos dan

fact music
So we are actually getting whole nights based around the wonky flavours now? Not to be a twat, but what do peopledo there - sort of shuffle about lopsidedly all night?

w*nky isn't a genre, there is no such thing as a w*nky night, the music in question barely even exists in clubs (zomby always cancels his bookings, joker plays dubstep at dubstep nights), simon suggests he hasn't taken ketamine, and he hasn't asked the people who he claims make w*nky whether they take ketamine. great journalism.

i'm actually offended as a student of history that people (as above) are - inevitably - going to assume there is some semblance of truth in this thesis - okay, so he mildly caveats the thesis as perhaps just being 'rumours', but where are the rumours even coming from?

either way, my disappointment is nothing compared to how fucked off many of the label owners, djs, club-goers and producers in question are, from what i've seen on twitter and email in the last couple of days. "i don't even know where to start" is one of the more polite responses i've read. part of me thinks this thread should be locked or at least renamed.
 

hint

party record with a siren
But... take certain features that have been prevalent so far, like the un-quantised drums - doesn't that make it difficult to dance to, because you can't lock into a groove?

I think you're misunderstanding what "un-quantised" means. James Brown and Chic are "un-quantised".
 

mos dan

fact music
At the empirical level, go to a club

ha. and this, my friend, is why that article was so ridiculously off the mark. club music should be heard in clubs, dance music should be danced to. otherwise stick to writing about vampire sodding weekend.
 

mms

sometimes
ha. and this, my friend, is why that article was so ridiculously off the mark. club music should be heard in clubs, dance music should be danced to. otherwise stick to writing about vampire sodding weekend.

i don't agree with this to be honest, there are plenty of examples of people writing really well, and accuratley about music they will probably never experience in a club context, also dance music isn't just to be danced too, else pirate radio wouldn't need to exist, nor would records etc, or it wouldn't thrive like it does anyway.
Also it's a bit of bullshit too, as how many of us have gone to a strip club in detroit or whatever, you know, what is the authoritative context for the 'authentic' musical experience, it's really just as bad as complaining that the hcc is the authentic matrix for explaining the loops and pathways of british dance music.
The interesting thing here is awkwardly choosing ketamine to run an argument about a genre through, the choice of drug and his ambivalence about the music open up definitley show up a few problems, there is an element where after reading it i was left thinking this was a 'you have to be on drugs to like this music' argument in parts.

it does exist in clubs, numbers in glasgow, benji's deviation club, low end theory in los angeles, it exists with a number of dj's such as kode 9, mark pritchard, darkstar boys, flylo, rustie, hudson mohawke, martyn, none of them would call what they do wonky though... even to an extent and coming from a different angle, people like matias aguayo too mixing old house new house, alot of southern hemisphere dance music (he's argentinian afterall) , it doesn't exist as a genre though, more as an adjective, and the style is a mix of dj set and performance.
 
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mos dan

fact music
i don't agree with this to be honest, there are plenty of examples of people writing really well, and accuratley about music they will probably never experience in a club context, also dance music isn't just to be danced too, else pirate radio wouldn't need to exist, nor would records etc, or it wouldn't thrive like it does anyway.

yeah fair point, i was getting carried away there, and went too hardline with that statement... which i'll attribute to the angst i've heard from people involved in making this music: "who is this guy and has he ever heard this music in a club?!?", which i've sort of internalised. you're right about pirates and everything of course.

i just think the otherwise baffling dismissal of funky, for example, makes perfect sense in light of what stelfox said about neither kpunk nor reynolds liking dancing. perfect sense. also you cannot compare listening to a marcus nasty radio stream to him on pp sound system, surely?

also if you (not you) were in clubs on a regular basis you'd know that zomby never shows up, joker tends to play boring dubstep (even tho his productions are next level), and hardly anyone is on ket.

i take your point though, i'm sorry i retract that dogmatism :)
 

tom lea

Well-known member
w*nky isn't a genre, there is no such thing as a w*nky night, the music in question barely even exists in clubs (zomby always cancels his bookings, joker plays dubstep at dubstep nights), simon suggests he hasn't taken ketamine, and he hasn't asked the people who he claims make w*nky whether they take ketamine. great journalism.
this is the crux for me. i think sometimes the 'you don't go to clubs so you don't know what yr talking about' thing can be overstated, and as mms says, people have wrote accurately about club culture from the outside (and often i think you need both perspectives), but simon has got so little evidence here that it's startling. he hasn't asked a single artist about it. he hasn't tried it himself. surely you try to put a new theory into practise before you put it in print?

then there's the fact he uses the dubstep against ketamine vibe (which does exist, at least on a very minor level) to justify a theory he applies to a blanket of musicians that, in many cases don't have anything to do with dubstep. i think this is what's really fucking me off about the w-word - people are using it to group everything from actress, to lukid, to bullion, to hud mo, to rustie, to zomby, to joker, to floating points together, and i don't think it works that way anymore.

late 07/early 08 the word started getting used (and i did hesitantly use it, as one of the first ppl writing about a lot of these artists in magazines, albeit with the requisite 'i'm aware it's a stupid name, but if i say it you'll know what i'm talking about' vibe) to describe a few mavericks on the fringes of dubstep really - ikonika, zomby, darkstar, rustie, quarta, a few others. and there was definitely something to connect them, even if it was just the hyperdub core. but when you look at the loose spectrum of it now, it's clear that the luckyme/lazersword/flylo thing is something pretty seperate. and so's the bullion/white/flpts thing. and that's different to the joker/gemmy/guido thing. zomby's in his own zone. i don't think you can still try connect this massively disparate pool of artists and labels with a buzzword that was never meant to stick around in the first place.

and if you do try to, you can't do it as sloppily and nonchalantly as simon has in this article.



either way, my disappointment is nothing compared to how fucked off many of the label owners, djs, club-goers and producers in question are, from what i've seen on twitter and email in the last couple of days. "i don't even know where to start" is one of the more polite responses i've read. part of me thinks this thread should be locked or at least renamed.

ppl like hud mo have eloquently and understandably explained why they don't like the term. he's far from the only one. like you say, twitter yesterday was on fire with artists, fans, writers and label owners expressing how stupid they find both the name and reynolds' piece.

i'm glad starring out the o is catching on when you do have to use the word tho, even if it's just you me and bk bk. ;)

--


anyway, on a cheerier point, whoever brought up floatingpoints - yes. he is killing it. trying to get him to do a future FACT mix. :)

edit: oh, and roll call for darkstar at fwd?
 
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mos dan

fact music
i'm glad starring out the o is catching on when you do have to use the word tho, even if it's just you me and bk bk. ;)

yeah that was an inspired move haha... really good points about flylo and the various different camps.. there's no harm in exploring some sonic connections between these very disparate artists, but you reeeeeally have to be a lot more tentative than reynolds has been. and, yknow, maybe do some research beyond internet message boards, dare i suggest.

*raises hand for darkstar*
 

ether

Well-known member
Seriously what is Reynolds going on about? When this guy is on, he's spot on, but when he's off he is way, way off.

I have never in my entire life heard anybody call ketamine "wonky". Maybe they were doing it at raves in 1992 - where a good part of Reynolds still lives.

cake anyone? this makes me think of brass-eye.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal

Haha nice. Glasgow doing well at anything other than indie for a change has got to be a good thing I reckon. Maybe I should try making it down to Numbers soon, although I anticipate my crew's tolerance for most of the music we'll be likely to hear will be low. :(
 

muser

Well-known member
Seriously what is Reynolds going on about? When this guy is on, he's spot on, but when he's off he is way, way off.

I have never in my entire life heard anybody call ketamine "wonky". Maybe they were doing it at raves in 1992 - where a good part of Reynolds still lives.

Ketamine is pretty commonly known as wonk in the southern squat/ free party scene. If hes relating wonky to Ketamine though thats clearly bollocks, in my experience most people that take alot of K are into Gabba/Hardtek/Breakcore i.e music on the high tempo punk/metal electronic strain.
 
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Sinko

Member
either way, my disappointment is nothing compared to how fucked off many of the label owners, djs, club-goers and producers in question are, from what i've seen on twitter and email in the last couple of days. "i don't even know where to start" is one of the more polite responses i've read. part of me thinks this thread should be locked or at least renamed.

oh no! one article in the guardian and one thread on the internet is going to take down the whole scene!* twitter said so!

*omg it's not a scene sorry
 

tom lea

Well-known member
oh no! one article in the guardian and one thread on the internet is going to take down the whole scene!* twitter said so!

*omg it's not a scene sorry

he never said that though, did he? he just said it pissed off a lot of people - musicians, label owners, fans and otherwise - and it did.
 
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