Fascism!
- Thread starter josef k.
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nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
I think du machst kein Sinn.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
What is your point? That there is no political dimension? That there's no possible way that capitalism is anything other than a historical inevitability? (Subjects Zizek takes on quite well, and often.)
How could you possibly claim to be some kind of ex-Zizekian?
This is all really strange.
How could you possibly claim to be some kind of ex-Zizekian?
This is all really strange.
Agent
dgaf ngaf cgaf
with or without communism, something has to come after capitalism. it's an organic system, it has evolved over time. we went from surplus/gift economies to barter and trade, to international markets and digital currency networks. liberal capitalism and democracy don't afford much in the way of private enjoyment or jouissance. the system is designed to bar us from getting off (whatever your poison is, sex, drugs, violence, etc)
i don't think zizek, nancy, miller, etc. would argue that the postmodern has failed to assimilate capitalism, neoliberalism, etc - it has been assimilated INTO globalization through marketing and ironic commercialism. the excess never exceeded the law so culture died along with the subject, the political dimension (becomes 'trans-politics' as JB put it in The Transparency of Evil), and all that Hegelian shite. to me Kojeve is the only real postmodern political thinker, or the only one with any relevance. Marx isn't in the discussion as far as I'm concerned.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
Yeah, I think I agree...personally I think we need to divest of Marx because the problem with Marx is that his utopia is an industrial/modernist one. And it's more than evident that industrialism/modernism are at best OVER/irrelevant, at worst they were doomed.
Agent
dgaf ngaf cgaf
yeah economically we are post-industrial (global, digital, services, knowledge, etc.), and culturally we are post-modern. there's no awareness of high or radical modernist culture, we are less advanced that than. i can't find a meaninful difference between contemporary art and popular culture.
is Zizek so clear-cut Marxist, or Trotskyite? I read a piece he wrote recently for the London Book Review ( i think) where he sounded like a neoliberal (tax cuts for the rich really do trickle down to the poor, etc.)
is Zizek so clear-cut Marxist, or Trotskyite? I read a piece he wrote recently for the London Book Review ( i think) where he sounded like a neoliberal (tax cuts for the rich really do trickle down to the poor, etc.)
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
Zizek used to be, early on, a very dedicated Marxist, as were a lot of people in his region. I wish Padraig were still here because he probably knows a lot about the Slovenian political parties at the time. If you search you might be able to find a television appearance he and other candidates made. It was a debate before the election in which he ran for pres of Slovenia. It's pretty funny--the moderator at one point has to stop Zizek and says "there's no doubt you're the smartest person here, but you've talked over everyone long enough..." or something to that effect.
But these days it's not even so clear that he's pushing for literal or vulgar Marxism.
That's why I think this "Zizek is a fascist" stuff is bizarre.
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Agent
dgaf ngaf cgaf
i remember his involvement with NSK and all that in Slovenia - i used to be engaged to an art critic who worked with the NSK collective, she knew Zizek then. To me Zizek's politics are secondary to all the cultural studies/Lacan/Hegel analyses. I think Zizek stays in line with most of the post-Marxist thinkers re: late capitalism. It is an irresistible force, it is "undead" in a manner of speaking, etc. I thought it was odd that he supported GW Bush in '04 then endorsed Obama in '08. Sometimes though i wonder if Zizek even takes politics seriously - it seems like he uses political events as launches for discussions about everything BUT politics : ) but i agree, definitely not a fascist or anything resembling a fascist. Fukuyama on the other hand, or Leo Strauss (who Zizek talks about a bit) and his neocon ilk, quite possibly.
As far as I know Zizek is in line with Kojevian post-Marxism (Lacan and Bataille's reading of Kojeve esp)
As far as I know Zizek is in line with Kojevian post-Marxism (Lacan and Bataille's reading of Kojeve esp)
vimothy
yurp
In English? I have got to see it, if it is.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
It has subtitles...I'm pretty sure the clip is on one of those recent bios.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
He supported Bush in 04, really? Funny. I agree, he doesn't seem to take party politics very seriously.
vimothy
yurp
Fukuyama's hardly a fascist. Or maybe, could you be a bit more specific about what you mean by "fascist"?
Agent
dgaf ngaf cgaf
fascist = neocon, or anyone who goes to dinners at which neocons are present, etc.
Zizek also thinks the American president should be voted for only by non-Americans. He supported Bush during one of the elections, maybe it was 2000. This is from Zizek's response to Bush's re-election in 2004:
i guess a fascist wouldn't say history had ended, or would they? idk. the fascist agenda is about destroying history and returning to tribal forms. that's why hitler always spoke of the "volk" and used all the silly insignia. But yeah Fukuyama is so far on the right we might as well call him a fascist ; )
Zizek also thinks the American president should be voted for only by non-Americans. He supported Bush during one of the elections, maybe it was 2000. This is from Zizek's response to Bush's re-election in 2004:
i guess a fascist wouldn't say history had ended, or would they? idk. the fascist agenda is about destroying history and returning to tribal forms. that's why hitler always spoke of the "volk" and used all the silly insignia. But yeah Fukuyama is so far on the right we might as well call him a fascist ; )
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He didn't exactly support Bush - rather, he wrote a piece after Bush's victory, saying that it was good that he won, because it means that the stakes remain clear, whereas Kerry would only have muddied the waters.
It's here: http://www.lacan.com/zizekwaterloo.htm
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
I've always thought of fascists as people who believe that the ends always justify the means, when it comes to violating human rights and essential freedoms in order to attain what they consider "higher" political/ideological goals.
For example, passing the Patriot Act because it was supposed to help catch terrorists. Unsurprisingly, the whistleblowers coming out now, who worked on the wires, are saying all they did was intercept phone sex between soldiers in Iraq and their significant others at home and tip off other workers to "good" calls like these.
Or Hitler's Germany killing Jews/communists.
Or Stalin's USSR killing dissenters and all sorts of randoms.
For example, passing the Patriot Act because it was supposed to help catch terrorists. Unsurprisingly, the whistleblowers coming out now, who worked on the wires, are saying all they did was intercept phone sex between soldiers in Iraq and their significant others at home and tip off other workers to "good" calls like these.
Or Hitler's Germany killing Jews/communists.
Or Stalin's USSR killing dissenters and all sorts of randoms.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
What about him?
"I've always thought of fascists as people who believe that the ends always justify the means, when it comes to violating human rights and essential freedoms in order to attain what they consider "higher" political/ideological goals."
Zizek does seem to believe this... note his comments "You can't break a few eggs without making an omelette" at the end of the Parallax View, as well as his glorification of "divine violence", military discipline and strength in "In Defence of Lost Causes."
Zizek does seem to believe this... note his comments "You can't break a few eggs without making an omelette" at the end of the Parallax View, as well as his glorification of "divine violence", military discipline and strength in "In Defence of Lost Causes."