forward 2 leak (grime/blogs)

[believekevin]

Grime and the mp3

In Boston, the closest we've gotten to grime are the rephlex comps and the odd dizzee 12". Never seen a white label or anything on Aftershock. Anyone out here bumping this stuff is working off mp3.

I would posit that this grime thing is one of the first subgenres to thrive off of the blog/mp3 combo from day zero. There is a serious hunger in the states for grime vinyl. If any shop in Boston started carrying this shit, they'd have a small but dedicated contingent in moments. I'm sure the same is only more true for those folks in NYC/Bklyn.

Bummer about the leaked Roll Deep LP but for serious, I can't see it doing anything but generating hype for an impending release. With such strong showings on the pirates, can their LP be that far from our expectations that a leaked version would discourage folks from buying it?

I'm especially intrigued by artists who are mailing mp3s direct to you bloggers. That's some 2005 shit for sure.

 

[Logan Sama]

The ppint seems to be lost. Leaking upfinished unsigned material is entirely different to "file sharing" released tracks which people in Buttfuck, Illinois do not have access to buying.

When an unreleased tune gets leaked it does not increase sales.... there is no release for sales to be increased. There's usually a reason the tracks havent yet been released. Namely because they are releasing something else at the time! And in that event it makes people move onto the next tune and forget about focussing on the currect release.

ie: The leak regarding FWD 2 will detract attention from No.

 

[DJL]

I understand why an artist wouldn't want a track to be leaked for the reasons you give above Logan but it seems to be unavoidable no matter how wrong it is. So might as well take the fact that this is going to happen and plan this into the marketing strategy.

 

[b/v]

I understand why an artist wouldn't want a track to be leaked for the reasons you give above Logan but it seems to be unavoidable no matter how wrong it is. So might as well take the fact that this is going to happen and plan this into the marketing strategy.

perhaps.. but as previously stated, there's a big difference between a pre-release leak and one where the track in question was only meant to be in the possession of the artist.

 

[3underscore]

I understand why an artist wouldn't want a track to be leaked for the reasons you give above Logan but it seems to be unavoidable no matter how wrong it is. So might as well take the fact that this is going to happen and plan this into the marketing strategy.

This is heading down into the traditional problem of the mp3 - people claim "it was going to happen anyway, so learn to deal with it" - like it or not, you are talking about theft here, alongwith copyright issues. As b/v and logan rightly point out, the matter is different with Roll Deep or FWD2. Without the leak this product has a much higher value, and that it leaked causes a serious problem for all involved, alongside adding to a certain amount of paranoia that seems to lurk anyway. People shouldn't have to deal with this - these are the two artists who closely fit the ideal that "I would buy if it wasn't a white label for £7" as people would package this and probably cut it out at a reasonable price due to volume - so it leaks before they even get a chance to do that! And you wonder why things are thrown out as quick as possible on whites?

I am a bit stronger in my opinion that if I see someone playing mp3s of a track they can go to the shop and buy, and playing it out, then I think it is wrong unless they have bought it. I am talking UK, and I am talking anything. I wouldn't personally play "stolen" tunes (Roll Deep / FWD2) and think it is going to kill the scene the same as people making the decision to use mp3 files rather than buy. I consciously rip any vinyl at a level solely for home use for this very reason, and - as said above - typically share unavailable things.

A secure mp3 site would be great, but would be an absolute nightmare to put together. I tip my hat to whoever thinks they could make it work.

 

[Noah Baby Food]

Man, not even US, Canada wherever...try Leeds, UK....coupla hundred miles from LDN but it might as well be South East Asia or summat. One record shop sells some Sidewinder tape packs etc, but NO vinyl anywhere. It's Rhythm Division, by mail order, or nothing. Actually though, there is an online MP3 store thingy where you can buy grime stuff for a quid a track. Can't bloody remember what it is but Chantelle Fiddy posted the address on her blog a few months ago. Some good stuff there...got "Hard Like Nipple" by D Double and Tripple Threat, good tune, exclusive as well I think.

I want to make sure all these cats get paid, coz I'm proud of 'em!

 

[Ness Rowlah]

here's how it could work

- grime-artist release or sell out (or close to it) the run of 500 or 1000 12"s.
- the track is made available on grimetunes.co.uk (example name) for purchase. £1, $2 per track
- the artist is free to release more 12"s or even CDs as (s)he wants, the online "label" is just
that (no dealing in any physical product)
- no DRM, high quality MP3s or lossless FLAC/ogg or whatever are available for purchase
- no DRM, low quality (64Kbit or less) are available free to spread the word
- artist/label gets 70%-80%, "weblabel" gets the rest (the fact is made public)
- PayPal being used for payment (or Worldpay or similar for VISA)
- Creative Commons licence is used (ala Magnatune)
- all deals are on a one-off basis: weblabel get exclusive rights for this one track for web release,
after that the artists can do whatever they want
- any punters found releasing the hi-quality MP3s for free are punished with a barrage of emails/any other sort
of reasonable cyber-punishment (ie "packet-storming" their website)
- ringtones would probably have to feature (and with mobiles coming with MP3 and all these days it makes
sense).
- maybe expand to not just grime, but any other sort of underground things going on ...
- artwork/graphics for CD-inlet as download (I think a couple of online labels does this)

I've been toying with the idea of doing something like this, but knowing what is involved in starting
just a small personal website from scratch, I know it's hours and hours of work. If you add
the legal, dealing with artists (some of them no doubt reluctant to have any sort of deal) and
payment side it's a hell of task ...

A pool of people (legal, techie, music, graphical - from here?) could be able to create something good
(at least better than Tony Wilson's new http://www.f4records.co.uk/ ).

Sakamoto said in 1998 http://www.ntticc.or.jp/pub/ic_mag/ic026/html/083e.html

Now, with the Internet, music can be distributed in its digital state, and the whole industry is about to be turned on its head. Music becomes the property of its producer, not his management office. It can go directly from the artist to the end user without passing through agencies of any kind.

This was in 98, we have moved on, but NOT to the state Sakamoto envisaged. I would think
most musicians just wants to make music and perform (and not manage a web presence or take
care of "web marketing") - so some sort of middleman might still be required.

 

[3underscore]

Man, not even US, Canada wherever...try Leeds, UK....coupla hundred miles from LDN but it might as well be South East Asia or summat. One record shop sells some Sidewinder tape packs etc, but NO vinyl anywhere. It's Rhythm Division, by mail order, or nothing. I want to make sure all these cats get paid, coz I'm proud of 'em!

Up until one month ago I lived in Edinburgh, and my friend who has probably more records than me lives in Glasgow. I'm wholly aware of the difficulties faced, and had to swallow it. There is Rhythm Division, Uptown, Dubplate, Blackmarket - all do mail order. Yeah, I have been on the back end of some significant postage costs, but that is sadly the way it is, and I feel so staunch about the issue of buying I pay out a lot. As for anything about paying £7 for a 12", that is standard pricing for most things. You can lobby your local record shop to bother to get it - they eventually do get some, though not much, and not quick.

 

[believekevin]

two more thoughts, one physical, one ephemeral

1) what would you think if grime folks start leaking crippled tracks (a la recent daft punk and aphex twin albums) ?

2) could collective purchasing work for places without easy access: northeast US, france, toronto?

 

[ome]

magnatune

setting up a free to download but retaining copyright website to distribute music as a label is now an option..

friendly people have set up the creative commons licences for this sort of thing
see: https://magnatune.com/ for an example of a record label. (to get the mp3 for free you must legaly state that you will not use the music for a commercial purpose) Sales figures for artists and the labels owners blog shows how he makes money for his artists...

This completly bypasses the majors and the current copyright protection organisations and allows you to automate the whole process cheeply.

ive set up various sites in the past and would be up for a challange to set up such a project but am not really on the scene - anyone?

 

[Pearsall]

Another problem is that I don't think that the UK grime stores are yet used to selling overseas. Unless you ask them to not charge you VAT they go ahead and do it, because I guess they don't realize that non-EU customers don't have to pay it. 17.5% off 7 pounds is over 1.20, which adds up to a reasonable saving over a couple of records.

Plus they also charge a fucking extortionate amount for postage. When I lived in London I used to sell records off from my collection to people all over the world and I never charged anywhere near the amounts that people like Independance seem to. Hell, when I've ordered techno from online stores like Chemical their postage charges have been far more reasonable than any of the grime stores.

 

[Melchior]

The other problem for a lot of people in this thread is that the US dollar is currently pathetic, probably for the first time in the lives of most of them!

But the postage thing is massive. My Mum is studying in London at the moment, so I'm gonna oder a pile of the DVDs etc when she's heading back to this part of the world. But it's just too expensive right now.

 

[Pearsall]

The other problem for a lot of people in this thread is that the US dollar is currently pathetic, probably for the first time in the lives of most of them!

Yeah, that's definitely a part of it. Just two years ago the exchange rate to the pound was about $1.45, now it is around $1.90 - big difference. I bought a bunch of stuff when I was in London over Christmas, but I had to block out the exchange rate from my mind...those dvd's were like over $30 each!

 

[Woebot]

A guy I DJ with wants me to rip all my grime at 320kbp so he can have decent copies of my records. If he DJs with then, how is that right? He gets paid for playing, whereas he didn't pay the artist the dues of buying the record.

i think this is totally reprehensible! (sounds like you think hes taking the piss too) i mean its one thing downloading "illeagal" mp3s for your own personal use (verging on the the iffy if you ask me, but depends on what day you pose the question.... ) but for dj-ing out (!!!!) i just think thats appalling. and i know its becoming more and more common.

in grime this is EVEN worse i reckon. stores like rhythm division and uptown.... if they dont exist to sell to records to DJs what are they there for?

 

[ambrose]

Man, not even US, Canada wherever...try Leeds, UK....coupla hundred miles from LDN but it might as well be South East Asia or summat. One record shop sells some Sidewinder tape packs etc, but NO vinyl anywhere. It's Rhythm Division, by mail order, or nothing. Actually though, there is an online MP3 store thingy where you can buy grime stuff for a quid a track. Can't bloody remember what it is but Chantelle Fiddy posted the address on her blog a few months ago. Some good stuff there...got "Hard Like Nipple" by D Double and Tripple Threat, good tune, exclusive as well I think.

I want to make sure all these cats get paid, coz I'm proud of 'em!

not to do with this issue, but just wondered if you were going to see plasticman tonight at the bassment in leeds

 

[Fritz]

For the U.S.A./Canada Troops

Another problem is that I don't think that the UK grime stores are yet used to selling overseas. Unless you ask them to not charge you VAT they go ahead and do it, because I guess they don't realize that non-EU customers don't have to pay it. 17.5% off 7 pounds is over 1.20, which adds up to a reasonable saving over a couple of records.

Which shops will actually do this? I thought Rhythm Division's prices were pre-VAT, but they always seem about 20 percent higher than, say, Juno, which lists its prices w/o VAT. I can't tell if Uptown does or not.