Negative Energy

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
really the only thing that could come close to the purity of that Negative Approach bit is hip hop at its most cold-blooded & nihilistic. like Mobb Deep but moreso.

Funny I was going to start a boom bap thread recently, I agree with this, early nineties hiphop to me is as negative as it gets, the resignation about reducing life to money and killing and drugs is just so pure, it beats devil worship by actually being devil worship, rather than talking about it.
 

swears

preppy-kei
Funny I was going to start a boom bap thread recently, I agree with this, early nineties hiphop to me is as negative as it gets, the resignation about reducing life to money and killing and drugs is just so pure, it beats devil worship by actually being devil worship, rather than talking about it.

Yeah, music like the Geto Boyz or Scarface's solo stuff is way more strikingly nihilistic than a lot of the more recent gangsta rap because the latter is more business as usual, it's what's expected of rappers now. Early gangsta rap can be way grimier.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
the resignation about reducing life to money and killing and drugs is just so pure, it beats devil worship by actually being devil worship, rather than talking about it.

or you can do both! :D :D :D

three_six_mafia.jpg
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Pff, I was going to make a joke of it. Like, fuck your negative approach, or something. It's not a competition, just some different angles that the topic suggests. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

oh c'mon I was just needling ya. no harm intended.

tho I do really find the Fugs to be insufferable. not even cos of their ideas so much as cos they so were so shite at executing them. like the hippie Le Tigre or something. on the other hand I know more than a few cynical old hippies who are pretty cool. the ones that got cynical & moved to out to land in the middle of nowhere I mean, not like Jerry Rubin I'm going to sellout cynical. the latter type infest the bougier parts of northern California like the plague.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
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Like the strangulated whiper of resignation to utter despair. Or something.
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
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Like the strangulated whiper of resignation to utter despair. Or something.

 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
it beats devil worship by actually being devil worship, rather than talking about it.

this is it exactly.

like Negative Approach - that's just raw unadulterated frustration. a basic disconnect from everything. also, I mean, it's easy to relate to. whereas so much of this self-consciously "dark" stuff is caught up in all kinds of cryptic, quasi-mystical bullshit & all this mediation. like black metal, where if it's not some shite about Satan & half-digested bits of Nietschze it's some other shite about Vikings & Odinism & whatever. the point being that if you have to screech about how evil you are it's unlikely that you're very evil.

early Bathory maybe - when it was just raw Venom/Motorhead etc ripoffs is maybe comparable. Hellhammer. all that super raw stuff. it's funny tho - cos a certain breed of punks cherish this too - but all that "rawness" (or in BM terms, "kvltness") becomes a fetishized quality in & of itself & loses its power. I guess this is kinda what Swears was talking about w/gangsta rap by the #s.

cos if you listen to "P.S.K." it's way more chilling than nearly everything that followed it. just so matter of fact.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
Now Playing: Ghetto - Freedom of Speech (how hasn't grime been mentioned yet, this is Dissensus!)

Actually, when Mr Tea was asking for people to recommend current EBM/industrial type stuff, I was very tempted to mention that a lot of grime productions feature what to my ears are quite industrial-sounding textures, and so he should give them a go. I dunno though, suspect he wouldn't have bought it :p. But certainly, loads of negative energy of various interesting sorts at work in grime (although it's perhaps a bit dangerous to focus on them in isolation).
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
My nightmare-gangsta pick

Now Playing: Ghetto - Freedom of Speech (how hasn't grime been mentioned yet, this is Dissensus!)

I don't think grime's hit it's darkest period yet, we're only just getting to 1998 with it I think.

My favourite? Bang bang, nukka. I prefer the ones that are just pure violence as opposed to the mental illness stuff, though I'd agree about Scarface. He's a total metalhead though, isn't he? Him and Triple 6.

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nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Yeah, I had Schooly D in mind too, actually. The really sparse, reverbed production on that, so sinister.

I really like Dr. Octagon. Also, that classic Nas album was pretty dark.

I always liked grime until I realized that Americans who like grime get accused of just being in it for the hip, so then I lost interest. And I haven't heard any new grime in forever.

What is good?
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
thats intersting but not sure if it can explain at all the alleged correlation between anger and depression as expressed through music and "hedonism".



i dont think that's the classic definitiion of pleasure, which is the absence of pain, and the fulfillment of needs. and i'm having a hard time with your definition, because the word kind of becomes meaningless when "pleasure" can be derived from "pain, anger, hunger, unhappiness"? does pleasure only happen when the state of unhappiness is stopped? when you finally eat after being hungry?



i agree with the existence of this "psychic reward" for everything people do, but would add that it can be a lot more complex than simple "pleasure"; and due to the psychological make up of the modern individual, can take very, very convoluted, complex and contradictory forms,

i think people engage in activities for reasons other than "pleasure" all the time. reasons like: substitution, replacement, validation, affirmation, compulsion, addiction, release, etc, etc.

a child abuser doesn't necessarily, or just do it out of "pleasure" alone, but a compulsion to repeat what has been done to him/her, and to release some of the pain and anguish bestowed upon their own childhood by giving it to someone else.

a lonely old woman has 15 cats and talks to them constantly: they are not exactly a source of "simple pleasure" as much as a replacement for what she actually wants, the actual source of pleasure of which she is deprived.

sure one can claim that some of these things i've described (the cats) belong in a broad definition of "Pleasure", but with these situations i am saying it is useful to distinguish secondary and problemized forms of "pleasure" from simple and straight forward pleasure.

Well, it wasn't meant to "explain all" of it. It's just meant to explain why people do not necessarily avoid things that make them feel "bad"...

I don't remember any Greeks saying pleasure was the absence of pain. That sounds more like an American idea of what pleasure is. Although if you have examples I could be wrong. Tea is right that there were Stoics and different Greeks who tried to avoid the lower pleasures (Romans, on the other hand...), but they were a very distinct sect. I would say the prevailing classical view--or the one that influenced our culture the most, at least-- was the Aristotelian one.

I understand your point: of course no one acts for one reason only. But what you're doing with your examples in the last part of your post is insisting that pleasure only comes from doing things that are not evil, or pathetic, or strange. Which is not how it works in a lot of people. My point was not that people don't have very complex motivations, but that in each case you mention, they do what they're doing because it does something for them, it gives them something that need, whether consciously or not.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
I always liked grime until I realized that Americans who like grime get accused of just being in it for the hip, so then I lost interest. And I haven't heard any new grime in forever.

What is good?

There is loads of good stuff about, but I'm not the authority to go to for current tunes as I'm still playing catch-up myself.
Someone in the know please do the honours!
 

vimothy

yurp
My fave tune off the new Durrty Goodz album:

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nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
My fave tune off the new Durrty Goodz album:

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Yeah, this is high energy and fast, I like that about grime MCing.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
My fave tune off the new Durrty Goodz album:

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Now I've tried to listen to grime, I really have - mainly stuff people have posted on here, on the basis that Dissensians seem to know what they're talking about regarding music - but my brain invariables takes about two seconds before categorising it as "really fast, annoying hip-hop". Often less than two seconds, actually. I guess it's just not for me.
 
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