Obama health reform
- Thread starter IdleRich
- Start date
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
It was so strange to watch this whole scandal go down... my brother actually worked for Dede Scozzafava, the female representative who was supposed to run on the repug ticket instead of Doug Hoffman, but whom the party ran out on a rail because she's basically an evil socialist liberal who believes in gay marriage and abortion rights, etc etc. She's good friends with my grandfather, who was a local politican for years in upstate New York.
Anyway, my brother lives in Albany now and some of his friends work in the senate or congressional building. He said one friend in particular was there when the heads of the party from Washington told Dede she had to bow out, and then their camera people asked her really rude questions while she cried and they snapped photos of this. After all of this, they had the nerve to turn to Dede's staff and say, "well, the Hoffman campaign needs help, if you'd like to come back to Washington with us!"
!! !!
Really bizarre to see people you know make headlines in such a messy way.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I don't think it will either. the point is the many compromises health care reform advocates have been forced to make. Nancy Pelosi is about as firm as it gets w/r/t support for reproductive rights - I'm sure this really sticks in her craw, however big a smile she puts on in public. the larger point is that the people trying to push reform are not operating from a position of great strength, not strong enough to put a bill through w/o having to resort to making concessions and allowing in these kinds of odious amendments.
yes. it doesn't have anything, or at least not much, to do w/tea party nuts, FreedomWorks or Rush Limbaugh. the President's party nearly always loses seats in the midterms. that's what voters do - they turn whoever's in power out of power. further, the economy hasn't really improved since the Big O took office - it may have gotten worse (i.e., unemployment over 10%) and it doesn't like it will improve in any meaningful way in the next year. the question isn't whether the Democrats will lose seats in the midterms, but how many seats they will lose. I think it's likely they'll retain majorities in both houses, albeit much slimmer ones. the problem is that they're barely getting a bill through with the overwhelming majorities they have now. as well, the GOP is much more united in opposition than the Democrats are in support.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
the perfect is the enemy of the good.
vimothy
yurp
Krugman's most recent NYT column is worth reading.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
who's talking about perfect? just something that isn't simultaneously neutered and filled with pandering amendments. we've already had funding for abstinence-only education, some nonsense about being able to carry guns into national parks (which I'm fine with - I'm not big on gun control - but it obv has nothing to do with health care), now this extra clampdown on abortion funding. the bill the House voted on isn't bad, tbf; it prohibits denial of coverage based on preexisting conditions & limits ways in which premiums can be varied, has both an individual & employer mandate (w/sliding scale tax penalties who don't get insurance), has a quasi-public option in the form of an insurance exchange (this is where "neutered" comes in), etc. it also does some other nice things, like increasing Medicaid payments to primary care physicians. OTOH, it's unclear whether the Senate bill will have all that stuff - esp. the public option and employer mandate, what the final bill will look like or, again, if we'll get a bill at all. or who/how such a bill will be paid for - O really screwed himself/us when he promised not to raise taxes, at all.
in re: right-wing paranoia consuming the GOP, that's not a new story. the more intellectual/pragmatic side of the GOP (i.e. McCain, David Brooks, Natl Review - Buckley must be spinning in his grave these days, etc.) has been trying to ride that tiger for 20+ years and it's finally turned around and bit them in the ass. they have only themselves to blame for Limbaugh, Beck, etc. all those unholy alliances with Ralph Reed & James Dobson & that ilk. it's domestic blowback.
Last edited:
scottdisco
rip this joint please
i wasn't addressing anyone on thread tbf, or implying anything specific about anyone, more a generic punt. tbh it would make more sense if i'd put it in another thread i bet 
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
no, I think it's an absolutely valid point, in this specific situation & in general. but esp. in American politics. it's more just how exasperating the entire thing is/has been. mainly b/c I remain convinced that even after all this maneuvering the end product will be extremely disappointing. of course I hope to be happily surprised.
Voltaire is a great one for the aphorisms though, isn't he?
Voltaire is a great one for the aphorisms though, isn't he?
crackerjack
Well-known member
blackpixie
Well-known member
I usually try very hard to avoid the politics thread as most of you might as well be speaking german.. but padraig you seem to know what you are talking about here and i am wondering if you can shed light on why, with the left being the majority in house and senate, why the left must make so many concessions to their proposed health reform. And it hasn't even gone through the senate yet...
Is it blue dog democrats? Is it private interests having massive influences in washington?
I read a post on smart politics which found that most of the democrats who voted No on the bill represent constituencies who voted for mccain in large majorities in 2008, obviously indicating that they represent a fair amount of conservatives. So could it be that this is just realpolitik and that these "democrats" are really only concerned about 2010?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
The US has a 'left' now?!
(OK, a slightly trite point - obviously it has plenty of politicians to the left of, say, Palin or Bolton - but it doesn't really have a significant bloc that would be recognised as 'left' in most other democracies, does it?)
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
as Mr. Tea alludes to, there isn't really a "left" in mainstream American politics, at least not in the European social democratic sense; liberal is a better word to describe it. there is the Progressive Caucus, but that's only ~1/5th of the House (as far as "left" the Senate has Bernie Sanders and, well...). the biggest problem is that the Democrats are badly divided amongst themselves in a way the GOP really isn't. again, the concessions made to get the bill through the house were to moderate/conservative Dems, not to Republicans who were never, never going to vote for the bill anyway. Pelosi had to make the concessions b/c she simply didn't have the votes; even w/them it was obv. a very near-run thing.
the Senate is even worse. I'm not an expert, but the way I understand Pelosi as Speaker has a lot more control over what happens than Reid does as Senate Majority Leader. the Dems need a supermajority of 60 to avoid a filibuster. 60 is exactly the # they have (58 + 2 Independents, Sanders & the essentially Republican Joe Lieberman). since it's very unlikely that they'll get more than 1 or 2 GOP votes, if any, the more liberal Dems will be forced to make concessions to people like Ben Nelson. as to whether it's a real ideology issue or the eternal worry about re-election, I suspect a mixture of both but tending towards the latter. really I've no idea though. the real battles will be over what concessions are made, both in terms of what gets into the bill and what crazy amendments the liberals are forced to choke down.
on a general note, private interests have massive influence on pretty much everything in Washington. esp. if one is slightly expansive in the definition of "private interests".
Making sausage - health care bill
Hey, the lobbyists give you the words ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/arts/music/15ligh.html?_r=1&hpw
Hey, the lobbyists give you the words ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/arts/music/15ligh.html?_r=1&hpw
blackpixie
Well-known member
i dont see anything about lobbyists or healthcare, just an ugly picture of that drummer from nirvana.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/18/health/policy/18senate.html?hp
FTA
I doubt he will really get in the way, as there are ways around guys like this, but wow he argues that the public option will put private insurers out of business and then goes on to demand THAT?
L
LoraHup
Guest
Obama health r
Well there were not so many good presidents in the USA... and with Obama, i have my doubts tbh... i mean whenever hes on the news its because he did a joke somewhere or bought something for his wife or gave a party in the white house.. i mean really.. what is he doing?
Well there were not so many good presidents in the USA... and with Obama, i have my doubts tbh... i mean whenever hes on the news its because he did a joke somewhere or bought something for his wife or gave a party in the white house.. i mean really.. what is he doing?
