Fascism!

[nomadthethird]

if the means = the ends (i believe you said this somewhere), then we are in a perpetual deadlock.. how do we make any decisions?

I make decisions all of the time, based on information I get specific to given circumstances, insofar as these are situated within larger contexts (social, economic, political, etc).

I don't need Ten Commandments to know what's right. I don't need Sky Daddy. And I certainly don't need the fucking Party.

 

[nikbee]

If all of this is true, why are you on the internet right now and not revolutionizing?

Because you don't, you haven't, and you can't explain how to make communism actual without resorting to violence and authoritarianism.

If you had any ideas about how to do this, I might actually respect what you're saying. But you don't, so I don't.

If the means are the ends, then the only change worth making is one that doesn't rely on idiotic religious-universalist grandiosity and/or violence.

If we can't come up with a solution that isn't just more stupid rhetoric about why I'm good and everyone else is bad, that doesn't make life livable and sustainable for everyone, then we haven't come up with a real solution. We've come up with just another regime.

i dont know how to change the world.. im stuck, but thinking.. i have ideas. for me, the hardest part is puncturing through the nihilism inherent in an ontology (the late capitalist kind) that simply leaves us with no options, in a deadlock (statements like: violence can never be used, ever. i cant say that violence will not be a part of it.. hopefully wont.. but violence itself is complex, what kind of violence?).. a Real is necessary, no? lets contruct a Real first.

i would love to change something, and not kill anyone.. this is my dream, maybe my Real.. lets talk about how to change things.

i will put together some ideas maybe later tonight.. ive got someone coming over. love you.

 

[nikbee]

I make decisions all of the time, based on information I get specific to given circumstances, insofar as these are situated within larger contexts (social, economic, political, etc).

I don't need Ten Commandments to know what's right. I don't need Sky Daddy. And I certainly don't need the fucking Party.

me neither.. but how can you follow each Act to its finality.. you cant. this is inscribed in the Multiple itself..

 

[nikbee]

is it at all possible to construct a Just Law?

what if its a Law that 'absorbs' the Multiple? edit: we can even say, it feeds off the Multiple. i claim that communist ontology contains this 'module'.

 

[swears]

Operation Red Dog

Thought this was interesting...

The very definition of wingnut! KKK members trying to "invade" a small caribbean island and install white rule: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Red_Dog

 

[Mr. Tea]

What's with all the capitals? Have we fallen through a timeslip to 1720 or something?

 

[nomadthethird]

is it at all possible to construct a Just Law?

what if its a Law that 'absorbs' the Multiple?

What would be a "just" law, and who gets to decide what justice entails?

I'm not interested in making universal, totalized statements or judgments. It's really insufferably boring to me to hear people talk that way.

If someone can prove to me that we can make communism work without relying on humanism, essentialism, authoritarianism, or violence, I will be the first one in line.

Until then, all you've got is your history.

 

[nomadthethird]

What's with all the capitals? Have we fallen through a timeslip to 1720 or something?

Mr. Tea, you capitalize something when it's very much a grandiose abstract claim. It adds weight to fluffy propositions.

 

[nikbee]

Mr. Tea, you capitalize something when it's very much a grandiose abstract claim. It adds weight to fluffy propositions.

why do you do this? you know theres a difference between event and Event.

 

[Mr. Tea]

why do you do this? you know theres a difference between event and Event.

Would you care to enlighten me? An event is an occurrence, something that happens at a particular time and in a particular place. And an Event is...?

 

[scottdisco]

Event

 

[scottdisco]

event

 

[nikbee]

Would you care to enlighten me? An event is an occurrence, something that happens at a particular time and in a particular place. And an Event is...?

Lacan, Einstein, Paris Commune, Grateful Dead, .....

edit: the grateful dead bit was not serious.

 

[crackerjack]

Well the way I see it is that people are attracted to the BNP because they are "saying the unsayable" - they have managed to present themselves a filling a gap that no other party is able to.

What they are saying isn't nazi. The people attracted to them are not nazis. Indeed, they probably have very real grievances about being marginalised. Exposing Nick Griffin as a nazi 20 years ago is a bit of a weird way of engaging with this problem. Indeed the proof of the pudding is in the eating and there is absolutely no correlation between these boringly predictable nazi exposes and the BNP's electoral performance.

I think how BNP voters see it is that the BNP are a bit rough round the edges but have basically got it right and that the accusations of nazism come from the exact same people who have caused the problem in the first place i.e. the political establishment, mainstream parties and the raggle taggle coalition of students, vicars and the like. Or, if you prefer, Rik from the Young Ones.

Plus, the leadership is entirely happy to harp on about how they've changed their views and how patriotic they are and look we're using a Spitfire on our posters, we wouldn't do that if we were nazis, blah de blah.

Well I'd like something a little more subtle than screeching "Nazi" at them at every turn.

But there's a serious danger in ignoring it, because you let them choose their own turf, which in its fundamentals (anti-immigration, anti-Muslim) is popular with people who wouldn't vote for them now, because they think they're somehow beyond the pale.

Perhaps even more damaging to them than the Nazi thing is the feeling that they're violent thugs.

 

[mistersloane]

Would you care to enlighten me? An event is an occurrence, something that happens at a particular time and in a particular place. And an Event is...?

It comes from Alain Badiou's term 'evenement', which translates as kind-of event in English - but not quite, so to differentiate from the English usage he spells it with a capital E in translations. Plus then Badiou uses It to Elucidate all kinds of theories about stuff and whatever, so he's kinda changing the meaning of the word by changing its capitalisation.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Lacan, Einstein, Paris Commune, Grateful Dead, .....

edit: the grateful dead bit was not serious.

Right, so it's an important event, or person or thing or whatever, that had some kind of effect on how people see the world - something like that?

So do Events have to be positive? Would (say) the Holocaust, or the atomic bombings in Japan, constitute Events?

 

[nomadthethird]

An Event is something that has [universal, political] "truth", that is the result of a truth procedure.

Tea you'd really have to read Badiou...like Heidegger, he capitalizes a lot of things. Transcendental dualists (I just made that up but it seems to fit) believe there's a difference between Being and beings. Being is a general term for being in general, while beings are the objects and subjects we experience in everyday life.

I don't always believe these sorts of transcendental distinctions are meaningful. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.

 

[nomadthethird]

The sad part is, I really want to be convinced by communists that theirs is the Way. I do.

But every time I give them a chance to convince me, they get upset because I acknowledge the importance of praxis, and action, and all of the icky little details, and ask for specifics.

You can build an abstract utopia that gives you hope, and I won't stop you, that's fine with me--but I want to really change things, not just have abstract hope in an ideal. So if you can't offer more than that, I'm thoroughly unimpressed with your systems, no matter how tightly constructed you imagine them to be intellectually.

At least I can admit that I'm not sure things can change in the way communists want them to, instead of insisting over and over that they can even though I have no idea how to make it happen.

A little of both would be nice.

 

[nomadthethird]

My "Real" is that if you have to hurt/kill other people to get your way, your way is evil.

My "Real" is that there's no such thing as freedom in a biologically determined world. We will never be free. We are not transcendental subjects.

 

[nomadthethird]

There is no divine right of kings. No one has the decree from on high that will justify evil means.

You can pretend you do, but you'll be no better than the Catholic Church's inquisitors.