Reynolds hardcore continuum event

[mos dan]

I'd hazard a guess that most producers on the bleeding edge of Funky, Wonky (and whatever new sound is being crafted in some teenage bedsit) couldn't care less about the nuum and just make music to move the dancefloor on the weekend.

this is the suggestion alex made a while back that people were criticising.. mms made the point that it can be internalised even if not acknowledged.. idk, it's all conjectural really. i could point to examples of grime mcs and producers i know who are as into us hiphop as they are jungle and uk garage.. or reggae and dancehall.. or rock and pop.

 

[mos dan]

this is the suggestion alex made a while back that people were criticising.. mms made the point that it can be internalised even if not acknowledged.. idk, it's all conjectural really. i could point to examples of grime mcs and producers i know who are as into us hiphop as they are jungle and uk garage.. or reggae and dancehall.. or rock and pop.

i mean ffs, now i think of it, ikonika's musical background is the Other Kind of Hardcore!!!

i think i've finally found the solution... everyone's trying to get us to come up with a new theory, well i've got it, it's called:

The Hardcore Continuum (2)

and runs from fugazi to ikonika

 

[slackk]

How does the black funky house scene that preceded then ran alongside garage fit into the continuum, or is it not mentioned at all?

 

[Martin Dust]

11 pages deep

 

[mms]

I'd hazard a guess that most producers on the bleeding edge of Funky, Wonky (and whatever new sound is being crafted in some teenage bedsit) couldn't care less about the nuum and just make music to move the dancefloor on the weekend.

you mean guys like this fella?

http://www.youtube.com/user/redlockdj

jonny jungle refix :


leviticus burial and another tune:

or any number of djs refixing old garage/grime whatever tracks?

they're directly referencing the hardcore continnum, swallowing it, wholesale, sending it out again in splinters at new affirmed speeds and shapes.

it's not about whether producers sit around reading simon reynolds blog and pontificating on theory, you are asking whether the theory still works.

 

[mms]

i mean ffs, now i think of it, ikonika's musical background is the Other Kind of Hardcore!!!

i think i've finally found the solution... everyone's trying to get us to come up with a new theory, well i've got it, it's called:

The Hardcore Continuum (2)

and runs from fugazi to ikonika

as i said, her reaction to her sisters playing garage was punk rock, thats where she started, i guess it all made sense when the other shit she was into like dilla style beats could collide with dubstep, it's still exposure to the numm but things are getting fractured, discontinnum as we mentioned, also there is tons of dissonance in communication on the web, mp3s and myspace, lack of information on who owns or wrote what, implications of cultural confusion as new channels open up, and the difference between the creator/the reciever and the person who say puts up an mp3 or a youtube video, who again changes the inflection of ownership etc... then there are things like the constant lo-fi refix mp3 culture where different tracks take on even more confounding influences/local flavours... maybe this pulls out too far from what the numm is and represents, but maybe thats the reason the numm looks a bit wonky at the moment.

 

[mos dan]

as i said, her reaction to her sisters playing garage was punk rock, thats where she started, i guess it all made sense when the other shit she was into like dilla style beats could collide with dubstep.

punk rock, dilla and dubstep. none of which are nuum sounds, exactly? so is it any wonder k-punk and reynolds have ignored her? (to the best of my knowledge.) do we think ikonika's music has a 'rude energy'?

i'll repeat one bit from my fact article: zomby, ikonika, and joker made some (possibly most) of the best tunes out last year, imo. but apparently they're non-nuum, which to some people makes them less interesting.. i just think that's bonkers, self-consciously excising the most vital sounds in the uk underground.

sorry i'm starting to confuse myself now, i've long since stopped knowing what kind of point i'm trying to make... i am really loving this debate, but i think maybe i should step back from it for a week or two lol.

 

[mms]

punk rock, dilla and dubstep. none of which are nuum sounds, exactly? so is it any wonder k-punk and reynolds have ignored her? (to the best of my knowledge.) do we think ikonika's music has a 'rude energy'?

i'll repeat one bit from my fact article: zomby, ikonika, and joker made some (possibly most) of the best tunes out last year, imo. but apparently they're non-nuum, which to some people makes them less interesting.. i just think that's bonkers, self-consciously excising the most vital sounds in the uk underground.

sorry i'm starting to confuse myself now, i've long since stopped knowing what kind of point i'm trying to make... i am really loving this debate, but i think maybe i should step back from it for a week or two lol.

i think you're right there, and i think they're wrong, i think this comes down to taste and almost an agenda in a way, but i do think the whole thing needs some rewiring.

 

[wascal]

it's not about whether producers sit around reading simon reynolds blog and pontificating on theory, you are asking whether the theory still works.

Peverelist sums it up well in the recent RA interview:

RA: Apart from your material, the most recent singles on the label have come from Gemmy and Guido. Their colourful synths and clean sound seemed to be a bit of a departure from the usual type of thing that you'd find on Punch Drunk.

P: ....People like Pinch, Appleblim and myself grew up with jungle, and because they're ten years younger than us, they've got a different set of influences.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

i think i've finally found the solution... everyone's trying to get us to come up with a new theory, well i've got it, it's called:

The Hardcore Continuum (2)

and runs from fugazi to ikonika

yeah I like that! cue up something about how Klute was the drummer of an 80s Brit hardcore band. and Mick Harris of Napalm Death ("inventor" of the blastbeat) who went on to do a bunch of electronic stuff including some D - all the guys from ND actually, Justin Broadrick's done a ton of projects w/Kevin Martin. I need to stop myself cause I could on like this forever.

strangely enough if you think about (though I guess you could this with about any music) hardcore kinda mirrors adkore; starts off as raw antimusic noise made by grassroots youth culture then everyone grows up & learns to play/program their instruments and it turns tasteful &/or pofaced (screamo, later Good Looking/) or goes into a dead end of fast & hard (grindcore, techstep). I'm reminded of that (apocryphal? either way) Lemmy quote "when the punks learn to play their instruments they will play metal".

 

[mms]

yeah I like that! cue up something about how Klute was the drummer of an 80s Brit hardcore band. and Mick Harris of Napalm Death ("inventor" of the blastbeat) who went on to do a bunch of electronic stuff including some D - all the guys from ND actually, Justin Broadrick's done a ton of projects w/Kevin Martin. I need to stop myself cause I could on like this forever.

strangely enough if you think about (though I guess you could this with about any music) hardcore kinda mirrors adkore; starts off as raw antimusic noise made by grassroots youth culture then everyone grows up & learns to play/program their instruments and it turns tasteful &/or pofaced (screamo, later Good Looking/) or goes into a dead end of fast & hard (grindcore, techstep). I'm reminded of that (apocryphal? either way) Lemmy quote "when the punks learn to play their instruments they will play metal".

all those brooklyn people gg dance/battles/animal collective/black dice/parts and labor and all those la bands like health etc are all ex hardcorers ex hardcorerss with ipods stuffed full of mp3s from blogs i'd imagine

 

[craner]

I live in a cultureless shithole at the moment, millions of miles away from anything germane to this conversation or my former life, after all.

I was wondering how Dubai was going, Dave! Lovely to hear from you.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

oh & not to mention Hardcore Continuum #3! Lenny Dee & all those Dutch gabba guys - connected to jungle as well via Hellfish (who made tons of great ardkore records as Secret Squirrel) plus DJ Scud & all that German acid/breakbeat stuff, Riot Beats & that. and DHR! surely Alec Empire ties all 3 HCs together. yet somehow these days he's producing crap electro from what I gather? an ignominious ending surely.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

all those brooklyn people gg dance/battles/animal collective/black dice/parts and labor and all those la bands like health etc are all ex hardcorers ex hardcorerss with ipods stuffed full of mp3s from blogs i'd imagine

well yeah that's on the po-faced tasteful sides of things isn't it. even if some of them make dance-ish music. i forget to mention there's a 3rd possibility, which is purism. hence 40 yr old punks. there's a lot of them here in the States actually & they're mostly pretty nice people but sometimes it makes me wonder like jesus don't you ever get tired of this? 5 yrs was enough for me.

seriously though when I first got into electronic music a lot of it, like early Chicago house tracks, early ardkore & jungle, etc. really appealed to me coming from punk cos it's that same spirit. anyone can knock out a tune, dodgy gear, raw, whatever.

 

[vimothy]

& the whole free party/dogs on string scene

 

[Tentative Andy]

oh & not to mention Hardcore Continuum #3! Lenny Dee & all those Dutch gabba guys - connected to jungle as well via Hellfish (who made tons of great ardkore records as Secret Squirrel) plus DJ Scud & all that German acid/breakbeat stuff, Riot Beats & that. and DHR! surely Alec Empire ties all 3 HCs together. yet somehow these days he's producing crap electro from what I gather? an ignominious ending surely.

I really wish I could like gabba more than I do.

 

[STN]

What about Graham Massey being in Danny and the Dressmakers? Not really hardcore, but guitary ineptitude.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

& the whole free party/dogs on string scene

oh yeah I forgot about that cause we don't have it here in the States. the dogs on a string scene yes but instead of getting into spiral tribe tekno they're all into banjos & fiddles & stuff (instruments that you can carry whilst hitching or riding freight trains) as well the usual Discharge/Amebix wing of hc punk. wasn't that kind of pumping techno the soundtrack for Reclaim the Streets & stuff like that? which here is very much in the anarchopunk & related territory.

 

[mms]

oh & not to mention Hardcore Continuum #3! Lenny Dee & all those Dutch gabba guys - connected to jungle as well via Hellfish (who made tons of great ardkore records as Secret Squirrel) plus DJ Scud & all that German acid/breakbeat stuff, Riot Beats & that. and DHR! surely Alec Empire ties all 3 HCs together. yet somehow these days he's producing crap electro from what I gather? an ignominious ending surely.

lenny dee was an american he made old house music for nu groove, that kinda brooklyn beats stuff like todd terry.
however the hardcore continnum is about british kids making music, rather than everyone who ever touched a drum machine, obv there are lots of continnums though.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I really wish I could like gabba more than I do.

no that's ok it totally totally totally sucks. like death metal for electronic music (i.e. minus all the black influences) but without the 2 things that sometimes make death metal interesting, human drummers playing crazy patterns & guitar science.

there's some exceptions though - The Mover/Mescalinum United stuff, that guy Hellfish, a lot of the classic DHR stuff is great. none of that is really strictly gabba though I guess.