Reynolds hardcore continuum event

[vimothy]

There's good numbskull DM, though. The tech/jazzy side of it gets a bit boring, IMO. You'd maybe even think that such low-brow teenage excitement over technique would be all the rage with the sophisitication is boring crowd, but I digress...

And Hellfish, Producer -- that stuff is great.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

lenny dee was an american he made old house music for nu groove, that kinda brooklyn beats stuff like todd terry.
however the hardcore continnum is about british kids making music, rather than everyone who ever touched a drum machine, obv there are lots of continnums though.

well we're just kidding around aren't we. fugazi aren't exactly from east london either. also i dunno if you're familar or not but later on Lenny Dee made a bunch of early hardcore records. he's pretty big in that scene actually, I bet a lot of dudes who know him from gabba have no idea that he was in that old Brooklyn scene with like Frankie Bones & them.

seriously though there are plenty of connections if you dig a little bit. besides Klute & Justin Broadrick there's things like Renegade Soundwave or Omni Trio who was in that whole industrial/avante-funk scene in the 80s. Cab Voltaire even & their links to Sheffield bleeps techno.

 

[Tentative Andy]

Yeah - it's more that I can't fully explain or justify why I don't like that majority of it. In general, I like a lot of hard and aggressive music - punk being the main example, but also when it comes to rave I really love the early 90s Belgian techno, which was obv an influence on gabba. But, there's aggro and then there's aggro, and some of that type of music is just an automatic turn-off to me, and yeah, death metal and gabba would be my two main examples.
It might be something to do with Reynolds' concept of the 'Zone of Fruitless Intensification' - so much of gabba seems to be about nothing but trying to make each record harder and faster, and it gets to be a bore. But still, I feel there must be something more to my dislike, and I can't quite pinpoint it yet.

Edit: that was in respone to Padraig on the last page, I should have quoted.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Yeah - it's more that I can't fully explain or justify why I don't like that majority of...death metal and gabba.

Could it be that you are a pussy, ja?

 

[Tentative Andy]

Quite possibly!

 

[whatever]

however the hardcore continnum is about british kids making music, rather than everyone who ever touched a drum machine, obv there are lots of continnums though.

v mportnt points! hcc is about british kids, esp london kidz right?

"obv there are lots of conntinnuums" says mms. YES, thank you! There certainly are. it's important to say this again n again . also I'd say any tradition with communitiy/ies making art could be called continuua, often. Visual art, film maykers, etc. i'll bet iranian film industry folks post-rev cld easily talk bout their continnum/s forged under certain strict govt constraints (no man woman touch each other) and in situation called 'scenius' by .

so, as i say, hcc isn't particularly 'theoretical'

UNTIL SR begins to decide who fits IN , and who fits OUT . that's where his 'theory' or 'criticism' -- instead of 'description' -- actually comes in, and a lot of it is deficient (says i and bunch of others)

and, we r saying, that's when his distance from the scene begins to show and cause errors

no one ever said you can't write about art u didn't observe, firsthand, sellfox. that would discount virtually all scholarship of any kind dealing w teh past. problem is that many of SR's recent proclamations ring hollow to the kidz/journos/folks on the scene now, and they call him out for it. i mean, thx goodness - what does a critic expect , anyway, than to be challenged and called out ?

but we r gonna need more than old wire atricles in order to see what relevance his ideas have 2DAY for music/phaenomena/goings-on 2DAY

PEACE

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

There's good numbskull DM, though. The tech/jazzy side of it gets a bit boring, IMO.

sounds eerily like a description of post-'97 or so D doesn't it? anyway yeah I like a fair bit of DM though I never listen to it these days, Assück is still one of my favorite bands ever. a lot of it is just so monotonous, tepid blastbeats & growling.

black metal on the other hand, proper avant dissonant lo-fi antimusic (not counting the whole symphonic side of it, like Emperor & that). I think it's kind of interesting that BM seems to be gaining some currency with a hip crowd recently - Wolves In the Throne Room getting reviewed in Pitchfork & so on. I imagine some of that's via that whole Sunn)) scene which has always had one foot solidly in the hipster/art gallery world.

And Hellfish, Producer -- that stuff is great.

hell yeah it is. what separates it from most gabba/hardcore is that those guys never abandoned breakbeats.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

It might be something to do with Reynolds' concept of the 'Zone of Fruitless Intensification' - so much of gabba seems to be about nothing but trying to make each record harder and faster, and it gets to be a bore.

no that's it exactly. there's another quote I remember from Greg Ginn where he talked about he always wanted to have a groove no matter how fast they played. I think you can hear it in Black Flag if you listen, like last year Diplo put the bassline from "Six-Pack" under a dancehall beat & Cutty Ranks chatted over it & totally worked & was amazing (best thing Diplo's ever done by miles & miles). similarly jungle however fast & crazy it got, like Remarc, it still had that groove. whereas like 95% of gabba or extreme metal just don't.

 

[whatever]

via that whole Sunn)) scene which has always had one foot solidly in the hipster/art gallery world.

no no no no SUNN r TRUE RITUAL helpin us 2 win teh war gainst INDY ROCK say K-punk, SUNN R GOOD, INDIE BADDDDDDDDDD .. donut u get it twisted , padrige u.s. , no hipsterizm in sunn-world !!! THEY MEAN IT, THEY NOT FAKE AT ALL !!!

 

[Ory]

re: gabba

still love this..


but yes it's mostly a shite scene

 

[mms]

well we're just kidding around aren't we. fugazi aren't exactly from east london either. also i dunno if you're familar or not but later on Lenny Dee made a bunch of early hardcore records. he's pretty big in that scene actually, I bet a lot of dudes who know him from gabba have no idea that he was in that old Brooklyn scene with like Frankie Bones & them.

yep well the brooklyn stuff was hardcore in mode of production if not ppl doing it, ie just taking whatever , and putting some latin/electro drums and early hip hop moves on it:

here is him fucking up guy called geralds voodoo ray

thats where the whole black atlantic idea rears its head the paul gilroy/kodwo eshun ideas which obv you can also hear in funky, going back to the nu groove again almost, with folks transplanting their own versions of US strictly rhythm tracks, i mean tracks that have very few differences from strictly tracks, back in the uk, they're plugging into that whole idea really.

Garage in the uk rerubbed US garage in the same way...or hooked people like Todd Edwards up with a much bigger audience too.

yeah i've got some of the industrial strength records too

another latino brooklyn house producer turned gabber is omar santana
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Omar+Santana

 

[stelfox]

How does the black funky house scene that preceded then ran alongside garage fit into the continuum, or is it not mentioned at all?

it's very much mentioned. that scene ran parallel to jungle, often at the same nights. folks like todd edwards etc fitted in well with the inticacy and syncopation of jungle and people used that stuff as a jumping off point to get to 2step

 

[mms]

no no no no SUNN r TRUE RITUAL helpin us 2 win teh war gainst INDY ROCK say K-punk, SUNN R GOOD, INDIE BADDDDDDDDDD .. donut u get it twisted , padrige u.s. , no hipsterizm in sunn-world !!! THEY MEAN IT, THEY NOT FAKE AT ALL !!!

hmm who are you, your style o'writing and the fact that you're summarising well, making good observations, and your writing is such contrived 2,0 idiotalk makes me suspicious.

 

[Ory]

yeah ive got some of the industrial strength records too

that reminds me..

http://www.discogs.com/Dj-Manu-Le-Malin-Memory/release/82013

mr bangalter on co-production

 

[slackk]

it's very much mentioned. that scene ran parallel to jungle, often at the same nights. folks like todd edwards etc fitted in well with the inticacy and syncopation of jungle and people used that stuff as a jumping off point to get to 2step

Cheers Stelfox. Never delved too deep into the concept.

 

[stelfox]

and breakbeat hardcore would never have happened without house, which wouldn't have happened without disco, which wouldn't have happened without soul and blues, which wouldn't have happened without gospel, which wouldn't have happened without blah blah blah ... basically the whole of music is a continuum of sorts so i don't see what this one is so contentious, especially when it's still very clearly in effect. it's only when people start overthinking it, standing as guardians of what's in and what's out that it starts to get really problematic: ie bassline in, funky out, for whatever bizarre highfalutin reason that's supposed to be the case. both share some common roots, both are different, one is a bit more interesting than the other at the moment, but they're not poles-apart unrelated or from such different aesthetics that we shouldn't all be able to see the relationships.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

yep well the brooklyn stuff was hardcore in mode of production if not ppl doing it, ie just taking whatever , and putting some latin/electro drums and early hip hop moves on it:

thats where the whole black atlantic idea rears its head the paul gilroy/kodwo eshun ideas which obv you can also hear in funky, going back to the nu groove again almost, with folks transplanting their own versions of US strictly rhythm tracks, i mean tracks that have very few differences from strictly tracks, back in the uk, they're plugging into that whole idea really.

Garage in the uk rerubbed US garage in the same way...or hooked people like Todd Edwards up with a much bigger audience too.

a lot of really interesting points. I remember being surprised when I first listened to some of those early 90s NY House tracks how much they sounded like 2step just minus the beat science, like Wild Pitch & that. plus like Mr. Stelfox is saying it seems like there were tons of guys who directly left jungle to produce garage house before it was 2step, like Grant Nelson or Potential Bad Boy, both guys from Top Buzz, the list just goes on & on.

stuff like this is why it's so much more fun when the HC is talked about in terms of inclusion rather than exclusion *EDIT* Mr. Stelfox beat me to the punch I see*

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

no no no no SUNN r TRUE RITUAL helpin us 2 win teh war gainst INDY ROCK say K-punk, SUNN R GOOD, INDIE BADDDDDDDDDD .. donut u get it twisted , padrige u.s. , no hipsterizm in sunn-world !!! THEY MEAN IT, THEY NOT FAKE AT ALL !!!

of course you're just being a little provocative but just tbc I didn't really mean to slag off Sunn O))). usually, as is the case with most drone/noise, i find the concepts & execution to be much more interesting than the actual music but it's pretty disengenuous to say that they're not committed, they've been playing in slow drony metal bands for a long time, since way before it was cool.

 

[Martin Dust]

World Of Donk
http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=12185178001

 

[mms]

a lot of really interesting points. I remember being surprised when I first listened to some of those early 90s NY House tracks how much they sounded like 2step just minus the beat science, like Wild Pitch & that. plus like Mr. Stelfox is saying it seems like there were tons of guys who directly left jungle to produce garage house before it was 2step, like Grant Nelson or Potential Bad Boy, both guys from Top Buzz, the list just goes on & on.

stuff like this is why it's so much more fun when the HC is talked about in terms of inclusion rather than exclusion *EDIT* Mr. Stelfox beat me to the punch I see*

exactly, or where it breaks and fractures, it's almost as if some people have been exposed to what they like or what they feel comfortable with that they suggest that it's dead when they disagree along the lines of geography or taste, but i think reynolds and kpunk are equally as guilty of this.
I also think things are more complicated now, there needs to be some cross ref, more mutant models, the fact that it's a passive engine 'the internet' which is the motivator of alot of these newer parts that don't fit, plus the speed at which these things become global or collapse under the weight of the 'numm like aspects of dubstep have.

it's funny as you can almost read someone like lenny dee's life as a drawn out model of what often goes strange with the hardcore continnum, a reverse into banging 4 4 from an syncopated past.