viktorvaughn
Well-known member
Subtitling people from the north of england in the donkumentary - what the fuck! How patronising can you get.
Reynolds hardcore continuum event
- Thread starter heva
- Start date
Subtitling people from the north of england in the donkumentary - what the fuck! How patronising can you get.
swears
preppy-kei
Donk sux anyway, and is part of some sort of happy hardcore/cheeseball hard trance/scouse house continuum, which is some of the worst music ever... I grew up with people who love that stuff. All the mcs sound the same, and you can't get on a bus up here without hearing some 14 year old going "Aonetothetwotothethreetothefoureverybodyonthefloorskibbydibbydibbydibbyblahblahblah" to impress his mates.
craner
Beast of Burden
This track I posted on the Great 2-step thead is directly related to this and this. Case rested, surely?
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
oh yeah sure but but but to 2nd Mr. Craner there, there are like a million amazing tunes that from before & up to a little after the dark/happy split; Orca, DJ Red Alert & Mike Slammer, Grant Nelson and so on. this is a favorite, this is an absolute killer. actually none of that stuff has much at really to do donk or even like Scott Brown really, I just never pass up an excuse to post up a bunch of hands in the air pitched up 52& chipmunk piano stormers.
yeh it's only from yrs of trying to follow UK underground music that I have the slightest idea what a Geordie or a Brummie even is let alone what the hell they might sound like.
Tentative Andy
I'm in the Meal Deal
I don't mind Scott Brown or other bouncy techno type things like The Rhythmic State, in small doses obviously. Donk ain't really doing it for me though. (Who are the big players in the scene anyway, other than the Blackout Crew? I could just illegally download a Wigan Pier comp to investigate I guess.)
Tentative Andy
I'm in the Meal Deal
Great post. Couldn't agree more about Black Flag, Six Pack is probably my favourite BF song and there's a real solid groove to the long instrumental intro part for sure. Thinking back, so many of those early 80s USHC bands had really tight grooves going on, ultra aggressive and high-energy, but with this subliminal swing underneath and for me a real danceability factor. Bad Brains self-titled first album is probably the ultimate example, but you've got great time-playing going on also on a record like Bad Religion - How Could Hell Be Any Worse?, and even The Germs on tracks like Let's Pretend and Communist Eyes ended up with a solid rhythm section going. Just the drumming in most of those early hardcore bands is phenomenal, the ammount of propulsion and subtle variation they were able to get out of that basic two-beat style.
Actually, I reckon if there's any one strand that connects all the different music I'm into, it's most likely to be the beat/groove and my fascination with all the different flavours it can take - banging, funky, hypnotic, tense, grinding and so on almost indefinetly.
Edit: Aaaand as an upshot of all that palaver I've now managed to settle on a permanent subtitle.
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since you seem to have the benefit of insight AND a flat in London, perhaps you could instruct the peasants among us as to which part of the argument has gottenso ridiculous?
because what you said is sorta meaningless (EDIT: 'vague' wld be better) in light of the diversity of things pointed out already. come on: actually pick out part of the argument and respond to it! that'd make for a SUPERDUPER patently obvious point.
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First of all I'm not calling anyone a peasant.
Secondly, I think the fact that there have been such a diversity of arguments is the problem, because what is being discussed is fairly specific.
Thirdly I really don't want to repeat myself, so
http://www.dissensus.com/showpost.php?p=123451&postcount=20
It's about producers, DJs, pirates and promoters who have been involved in preceeding scenes, some from hardcore all the way to funky right now. It's about audiences and ravers who treasured the music of their older brothers and sisters, uncles, parents. I'm not trying to patronise anyone, it's just that I know that having lived in London all my life, and having raved in London since the mid-90s, that most of these people, the audience, would acknowledge the links from funky>grime>ukg>jungle>hardcore without having any specific knowledge of the concept of a hardcore continuum.
Secondly, I think the fact that there have been such a diversity of arguments is the problem, because what is being discussed is fairly specific.
Thirdly I really don't want to repeat myself, so
http://www.dissensus.com/showpost.php?p=123451&postcount=20
It's about producers, DJs, pirates and promoters who have been involved in preceeding scenes, some from hardcore all the way to funky right now. It's about audiences and ravers who treasured the music of their older brothers and sisters, uncles, parents. I'm not trying to patronise anyone, it's just that I know that having lived in London all my life, and having raved in London since the mid-90s, that most of these people, the audience, would acknowledge the links from funky>grime>ukg>jungle>hardcore without having any specific knowledge of the concept of a hardcore continuum.
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What u say in the quoted post and in this post above sound right to me (im no xpert), as did stelfox's and mms' and others' versions. i don't think that anyone 'round dssensu would deny that, actually. it's part of the atraction of teh hcc story that such lineages are so clear and visible. i agree with you !
but it would be vry vry important, i wld think, to historians of london musics to get that story as right as possible (the one you and others sketch). it's important, in terms of cultural & aesthetic and racial history and so on: get the story as right as possible. as rich and detailed and accurate as pssible. it shld be a majr task 4 any critic pretending to be thorough or authoritative, no?. but i don't see that in the recent SR writing ,. i see narrow views and bad bad history writing - for exmpl, confusing his own boredom for grime with an actual proclamation of the scene's health, which was totes fking loony. (ie 'grime is dead' instead of 'personally i've lost interest in grime'
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this is true but it might be worth looking at whether hardcore continuum had a significant starting point before debating the end. stelfox's claim of a (longer) general lineage of jamaican sound system culture in the uk kind of resonates with me but hardcore did seem have a fairly dramatic start-point. in london cheesy mass raves replaced exclusive chic rare groove nights. But that rare groove element has also remained a kind of counter-weight within ardcore... the more sophisticated soulful parts of 2step and definitely now in funky.
There's definitely generational and geographical tensions with what was a more collective cohesive scene 10 or so years years ago (people use to talk about the 'London massiv') ...generational because alot of jungle and garage had that mix of young newness alongside older heads adding older influences and oiling the infrastructure to make things happen - 2 step was perhaps the best example of this. But after a couple of years of grime this seemed to end, youngers were cut adrift, and told to go and so it for themselves (the elders going on to build funky). So there's been this generational fracturing of the massive. The geographical tension is two-fold, one is the shift from the south east to other metropolitan centres....the second is the gentrification on inner london. both these things have perhaps dissolved the collective energy needed for a new ball of energy to bring through the phase of hardcore.
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
I think VTS main audience is in the USA so it kinda makes sense, most people in Europe can't tell what we are saying
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
I think VTS main audience is in the USA so it kinda makes sense, most people in Europe can't tell what we are saying
Hmm ok. I felt that i don't think they would have done it to londoners, ie its all part of making the north look like a donk-ridden slum inhabited only by tracksuit wearers.
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
<puts on tin foil hat>
They're just working class kids having a laugh, I doubt they care what other people think.
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
I'm sure they wouldn't, just felt the tone of it left a slightly nasty taste in the mouth.
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
I can see that but it's a real cliche of how the North is painted, it's always nice when posh kids visit us