Cancellations

[padraig (u.s.)]

the Zapatistas are in fact a great example to look at now - both hugely successful and the first revolution of the Internet age

 

[version]

Also worth noting you can have more than one mob. Trump has his own, for example.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I'd say it's because this stuff relies on the person being cancelled and their facilitators accepting they were in the wrong

this is a good point. "relies on" may be a bit too strong.

but it makes cancellation vastly more difficult if 1) the target doesn't share the same values and/or 2) is willing and able to brazen it out

look at, for example, Al Franken, who almost immediately resigned when allegations of sexual misconduct came to light, vs Trump

also, @sufi again, I think you misunderstood what I meant about elected officials - they are of course constrained (hopefully) by public opinion

I only meant that cancellation alone cannot move them from office in the same way it can effectively end an private citizen's public career

version has it right - Harvey Weinstein is a private citizen, that is the difference

Dominic Cummings isn't an elected official either fwiw

 

[version]

Dominic Cummings isn't an elected official either fwiw

True, but he's being protected by a bunch of people who were elected and calling the shots as though he were.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Also worth noting you can have more than one mob

another good point, and speaks to the danger of relying on mobs as political tools

tea mentioned above the air of confusion - the overlap of Bernie and Trump supporters in 2016

it's reminiscent (history again) of the political confusion in the interwar period, all the crosscurrents between left and right

another period of social upheaval

which wound up, let it be remembered, with every popular uprising crushed by reactionaries of one stripe or another

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

True, but he's being protected by a bunch of people who were elected and calling the shots as though he were

he's still without the protections and legitimacy afforded by election

idk if they'll continue protecting him or not - but look at Steve Bannon, who seemed ascendant and unassailable, until he wasn't

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

blaming evil advisors to save your own (figurative or literal) skin is one of the oldest tricks in the book

whether he goes or not, the point is you can get rid of him through popular opinion alone if it's strong enough, unlike a PM or President

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

there's a reason the Romans made tribunes of the plebs unassailable by law while in office. it's also why Supreme Court justices serve for life.

btw, welcome back luke. I'm very glad you're alright.

I assume we can look forward to your usual mythopoesis. I'll stick with my history.

 

[Mr. Tea]

we're not even going to snigger at this?

What's funny about it? The ethnicity of the person making the argument is not irrelevant.

 

[luka]

You wouldn't be able to say those funny things if you knew they were funny or why they were funny. So I can't tell you, sorry.

 

[luka]

Thanks Padraig!

 

[luka]

There's loads of Internet specific stories of mobs gone wrong without looking back to Rome though. The Japanese lady wrestler committing suicide after online bullying. Or the way the Indians are constantly lynching Muslims cos of some rumour spread over what'sapp. Or what version is saying about trumps mob. You can see it reflected in trending Twitter topics.

 

[Mr. Tea]

You wouldn't be able to say those funny things if you knew they were funny or why they were funny. So I can't tell you, sorry.

You know, I'd been quite enjoying this place while it was taking a break from being Luka's Krazy House Of Japes And Banter.

 

[luka]

well that's the problem with groups isn't it. There's always going to be people you don't like.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

There's loads of Internet specific stories of mobs gone wrong without looking back to Rome though

absolutely true, thanks, those are all excellent examples, particularly the one about the lynchings in India

we could probably add teenagers killing themselves after online/IRL bullying as well

I'm not on Twitter, or barely, so most the digital mob stuff I only experience secondhand if at all

I mentioned Rome b/c 1) I've been reading a lot about the late Republic and 2) it's directly applicable, and the canonical example of mob as political tool

and sufi was specifically talking about using a mob as a political tool

 

[luka]

True, I was being a dick

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

no worries, I didn't take it that way. even you were, it wasn't a bad point. we should try to find modern examples as well.

tho - none of the things you mentioned are "punching up" as sufi put it

I can't think of any Internet specific examples of that outside cancellation etc. maybe you or someone else can.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

actually - doxxing

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Gamergate

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

those still aren't punching up tho

but definitely Internet mobs being used for very bad purposes

I can't remember the name but after Kobe died a female journalist got death threats for talking about his rape charges

that kind of thing seems in fact, pretty common