Careers, Jobs and stuff

you

Well-known member
I still have no clue what I want to do, or what makes me happy, or what I could do. I've been stuck in an unrewarding ( progression void ) office job for over 3 years since graduating - starting to wonder if I'm going wrong somewhere.

The advice I got at art college was basically "go out and meet people" - this hasn't happened, and to be honest I detest the thought of 'networking' - I feel I ought to find a skill I can develop and offer - but I don't know where to start because I don't know what I want to do ( apart from run away to the countryside ).

I started a thread on here some years ago asking the same question before I found a job, now I'm asking the same question with a job I don't want.

I've had some careers advice, but I feel they mostly expect me to meet someone who will give me a career - and I have no way of doing that, all my friends and family do things I don't want to do.

So - anyone thinking the same thing? Anyone thought the same as me and worked it out? Not looking for easy answers, just want to hear others thoughts.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
What does my fucking head in is job ads that could say, for example, "seeking clever person who can do such-and-such..." but instead start with "our client is looking for an exceptional candidate with a passion for marketing analytics..." - I mean, seriously, "a passion for"? Give me a fucking break. Jesus buggering Christ. :mad:
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
In my mid-20s I hit a void, so worked in shops while I took a City And Guilds in Stonemasonry. I thought a craft would be really good discipline for me, and I was in love with the idea, plus it got you out of that working in offices thing. I finished and ended up after a couple of years of freelance mason work deciding it wasn't right for me, but I still value that experience and people I know who've re-trained as woodworkers or whatever have always got alot out of it. I think having a skill gives you self-worth, even if you don't use it. It's certainly never a waste of time having practical skills - even though I turned out to be the worst stonemason in the world, I still did it.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Dunno the answer but if you find it please tell me. Spent the last couple of weeks invigilating exams for twelve pounds an hour - next week I'm counting pedestrians for market research. I get the odd bit of cash dj-ing and that's about it. No, tell a lie, I'm about to help my friends mix up some cocktails and sell them in the park - if anyone is in London Fields you'll probably see us in an hour or two so please buy lots.
Career though - fuck knows. I've applied for so many jobs to no avail (not even an interview) even though I'm qualified by experience and have a maths degree. I feel like giving up.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Following Tea's post, it's as if you have to apply the language of capitalism to yourself, interiorise it and make yourself a marketable product or worse, "brand". This might have been logical a few years ago when there was more money around and the economy was expanding but now it's stagnating, there's a gap between the optimism of this self-marketing and what is actually available.

Having said that, I think volunteering is a worthwhile option. I've only done it twice, once in a care home for people with learning disabilities, and the other for a counselling phone line. The former was shit (sometimes literally :mad:), but it did show me that I never ever want to do that sort of work ever again. The latter was great, I learnt loads, skills that I took into my job and everyday life, even if at the time, I was pretty crap at it.

Volunteering is also worthwhile just for the people you meet, connections you make etc. and it helps with the kind of self worth thing Mr Sloane talks about above, and it gets you out the fucking house and gives you projects to engage in. Cameron and the Big Society can go and fuck themselves with a Big Stick but I still think it's valuable, and if whatever-it-is you're involved in has benefits for others then even more so.

I'm not just thinking of unpaid social work when I say this, I'm thinking of unpaid work in companies. The whole culture we're developing of unpaid internships is shitty in all kinds of ways, but it might be a useful option if you're feeling stuck.
 

wise

bare BARE BONES
i'll tell you soon when I have time to write, prob quite relevant to this thread
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Danny OTM about internalising the language and ideology. Everything under capitalism is a trade off.

It's worth being clear about what you actually want to do and then being clear about what compromises you might have to make. I've decided to separate my job from what I actually want to do creatively (although there is overlap) so the main issue for me is time, time to do what I want outside the 9 to 5 and household chores.

Learning to better myself for my work, and all the networking, self-disciplining, applying for jobs and "upskilling" that requires would bite into my "me-time". So I largely don't do that and have now worked in the same place for over a decade. There have been a few opportunities for promotion there tho, which I've taken on because I am lazy when it comes to work and that was the easiest option - to stave off abject boredom if nothing else.

There are lots of things I probably "should" do to make my job better and get me more money and all that. But I basically can't be arsed. In retrospect I have made mistakes and settled for things rather than being "proactive" and all that. I am not unduly bothered about this - it's better than flogging yourself to death for your boss or some idealised notion of success.

Sometimes I like my job and sometimes I don't - but I am clear about what it is - a way to spend my time to ensure an income. I work for a charity, so how I spend my time makes the world a better place and I largely like the people I work with on a daily basis a great deal.

A lot of the self-improvement literature seems to imply that there is a perfect job out there for everyone which will fulfill them (and make them wealthy). This is clearly bullshit. It is all a trade off, a compromise, the least worst option of the choices available. But having said that, there are always choices, for most of us.
 

you

Well-known member
Following Tea's post, it's as if you have to apply the language of capitalism to yourself, interiorise it and make yourself a marketable product or worse, "brand". This might have been logical a few years ago when there was more money around and the economy was expanding but now it's stagnating, there's a gap between the optimism of this self-marketing and what is actually available.

I'm a renegade re-labeler at work, if some eejit send's me a spreadsheet I dislike, feel is duplication or asks for data I know for a fact they already have the tools to get ( or is simply ill formatted ) I re-label it. "Installations Week 49" becomes "Dynamic Enablements Tracker Daemon". I also like acronyms and have a full list on the server..... AFAS...Acronym For All Situations.... and more mundane ones.....

Having said that, I think volunteering is a worthwhile option. I've only done it twice, once in a care home for people with learning disabilities, and the other for a counselling phone line. The former was shit (sometimes literally :mad:), but it did show me that I never ever want to do that sort of work ever again. The latter was great, I learnt loads, skills that I took into my job and everyday life, even if at the time, I was pretty crap at it.

Volunteering is also worthwhile just for the people you meet, connections you make etc. and it helps with the kind of self worth thing Mr Sloane talks about above, and it gets you out the fucking house and gives you projects to engage in. Cameron and the Big Society can go and fuck themselves with a Big Stick but I still think it's valuable, and if whatever-it-is you're involved in has benefits for others then even more so.

I'm not just thinking of unpaid social work when I say this, I'm thinking of unpaid work in companies. The whole culture we're developing of unpaid internships is shitty in all kinds of ways, but it might be a useful option if you're feeling stuck.

I don't get this, I just cannot get my head around this at all. Unless I am volunteering to read the books on my shelf then why bother??? They actually auction work experience at some auction houses in London!?!? Meritocracy my arse. Most volunteering I've encountered is just hanging around and doing the odd jobs that need to be done - i'll apply to a cafe if I want to make tea - and I'll get paid, work should never be free.
 

wise

bare BARE BONES
wise - waddayoudo?

I currently earn most of my income painting landscape commissions for rich Arabs via a London Gallery.
I also spend 6 weeks a year as an art handler installing the Barbican International Enterprises touring exhibition Game On 2.0 in various countries.
From these 2 jobs I can earn a decent living and only have to work 6 months of the year.
Currently the rest of my time is spent looking after my 13 month old son as my wife has to work full time.
So in short i'm very, very fortunate. This has not always been the case however.

Like Bandshell I hated the idea of having to work. After finishing school (and a very brief attempt at an art foundation) I worked for my Dad for a year doing basic CAD.
When the job ended I signed on, all my mates at the time were on the dole so I wanted to be too. I had the misfortune of living on the Isle of Wight so the interesting creative jobs I imagined myself doing were nowhere to be found. Even if there had been any opportunities I would have had no idea how to find them.
After 5 years claiming income support, bumming around and getting stoned I realised that rather than sticking 2 fingers up to the man and enjoying a carefree life doing stuff I enjoyed. I was paranoid, depressed, stuck in a rut and completely lacking in self confidence.
Fortunately this was also the time that the government brought in JSA and suddenly signing on every week was not so simple. I was given an ultimatum: get a shitty job or sign up to a training course.
I started a BTEC graphics course, after a year of this (and with supportive tutors) I was able to assemble a good enough portfolio to get on an art degree and get off the Isle of Wight.
While I was studying I made money as a DJ and promoter (DJing being the one positive thing I spent my time on the dole doing), and later working for a small craft firm making chandeliers.
Both jobs were good but the second was bloody hard work.
After finishing my BA I had no idea what to do, I didn't want a proper job and my DJing career hadn't progressed as I was rubbish at promoting myself/networking, etc.
Also my ears were pretty knackered.
I applied for an art MA in London and continued working part time making the chandeliers, this gave me just enough money to get by and time to make paintings.
I then spent 3 years at a prestigious London art college and left with my confidence in tatters and the realisation that although I was technically good at painting I really didn't have what it took to be a fine artist.
So after 7 years of further education I felt like I was back at square one. I'd had a great time at college but never really learned anything that was of use to me in the real world. The only work experience we did was lecturing, but you needed an art practice to do that as colleges expected you to talk about your own work as well as give tutorials.
I'd been doing some part time art handling while I was studying so I carried on with that.
I worked for 3 years in a traditional gallery installing boring paintings for just over minimum wage, working full time and just about getting by (but slowly slipping into debt).
Eventually I got some work installing at The Barbican Gallery through a friend that worked there, once I had the Barbican on my CV other doors opened and I got some better art handling jobs, then the credit got crunched and lots of doors closed again as everyone tightened their belts.
Again I was back to just scrapping by, having spare time now but being so broke that I couldn't really relax and appreciate it.
The future seemed very uncertain, I tried applying for 'real' jobs but having no experience I didn't get far. I couldn't afford to work for freee to gain experience and to be honest didn't see why I should have to.

Two years ago I applied for the overseas art handling job hoping all my little bits of cobbled together experience might just add up to something. I didn't get the job but got a call back 8 months later for a new post and this time I did get it.
I'd always felt that companies expected you to have done a job already when you went for the interview, but I drew on my different experiences and was honest about what I didn't have experience of. By this point i'd mustered some sef confidence again and it worked.
I learned on the job and everything went fairly smoothly.

The commission work came about through an everyday chat with another art handler at the poorly paying gallery, I was making some 'realist' paintings to try and get a job making paintings for other artists (a job I didn't ened up getting as the art bubble popped).
The girl I chatted to about it had a conversation with someone from the commissions department at a later date when they were looking for younger artists who could paint in a realist style and she mentioned me.
Although i'd worked there for 4 odd years I had no idea that you could just be a commissioned artist for the gallery without having an ongoing practice making that style of painting (something I had no interest in doing).
So without networking but due to normal conversations and working within a field i've ended up with (for me) the perfect job.
The 4 years of shit work now justified by the good job I would never have got otherwise.

As for the future who knows? Neither of these jobs has any security but I hope they continue long enough that the stuff i've learned from them i'll be able to take forward (or sideways in to some other job).
So i've written a lot and I don't know what you will take from it, maybe just what a lucky bastard.

Looking back now I wish I hadn't been on the dole all those years as it just seems like such wasted time, if I had worked i'm sure I would have learned some stuff I could have employed elsewhere.
I've also spent many a dark poverty stricken moment wishing i'd studied something more practical than art so I had some chance to earn a reliable living, but the pieces did finally come together and now i'm very glad I was so pig headed and followed the things I was passionate about.
Maybe if i'd just settled for a shit job at the beginning i'd still be living on the IoW working at it now...
 

you

Well-known member
wise - wow, that's actually made me feel a lot better about things... food for thought - cheers
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I currently earn most of my income painting landscape commissions for rich Arabs via a London Gallery.
I also spend 6 weeks a year as an art handler installing the Barbican International Enterprises touring exhibition Game On 2.0 in various countries.
From these 2 jobs I can earn a decent living and only have to work 6 months of the year.
Currently the rest of my time is spent looking after my 13 month old son as my wife has to work full time.
So in short i'm very, very fortunate. This has not always been the case however.

Fucking hell, that's a big look :cool:
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
.

A lot of the self-improvement literature seems to imply that there is a perfect job out there for everyone which will fulfill them (and make them wealthy). This is clearly bullshit. It is all a trade off, a compromise, the least worst option of the choices available. But having said that, there are always choices, for most of us.


I’m a teacher as are several Dissensusians I think? Teaching is great in loads of ways. I would say I enjoy about 80% of it? Perhaps a bit less. The teaching and contact with the yoot dem can normally a lot of fun (it’s not always, esp. if you’re a shit teacher, but I’m not, I hope). It’s nice to see students change and develop and get excited by new ideas, and to feel you’re facilitating this. Plus I earn a reasonably salary and get great holidays. The downsides are a torrent of marking, and the fact it can really eat into your weekends and evenings. To some degree I resist this, but this changes from time to time. I have a continual sense of being harassed in term time, a permanent sense of things rushed and undone.

I think that the flipside of the “be all you can be live the dream” bollocks is that when you are not motoring away at 100% - when the realities of life impinge on you, and slow you down – you can develop a sense of guilt and frustration. I think this is also part of the “logic of capitalism” with regards to work – to make one internalise this conflicts, and believe that there’s a problem with you and your capacity for “Getting Things Done”, rather than recognising one is actually dealing with difficult demands. I suppose these kind of feelings are the twin of the frustration at the lack of direction others are talking about upthread. I make some compromises or cut corners occasionally, as a response to this, just so my life is better. So that I have some kind of life and don't give it all to my job. This will probably change as my circumstances alter.



Aside - I hate the periodic news stories, that emnate from the CBI telling us how much better off the country would be if they abolsihed another bank holiday or if no one ever pulled a sickie. They might cost x amount of billion but a) none of us are ever going to see that and b) they are an amazing boon to the country's mental health.

I hear you on the volunteering. I hate the way it’s sold as some kind of necessity, some kind of meritocractic “get up and go” choice. But, as Jon says, it’s a trade off. If you want to develop a specific skill, or get out of a rut, or “network”(puke ), it’s a compromise that you can make. It’s nothing more than that, it’s not some kind of necessity or moral duty.
 
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baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Danny OTM about internalising the language and ideology. Everything under capitalism is a trade off.

It's worth being clear about what you actually want to do and then being clear about what compromises you might have to make. I've decided to separate my job from what I actually want to do creatively (although there is overlap) so the main issue for me is time, time to do what I want outside the 9 to 5 and household chores.

Learning to better myself for my work, and all the networking, self-disciplining, applying for jobs and "upskilling" that requires would bite into my "me-time". So I largely don't do that and have now worked in the same place for over a decade. There have been a few opportunities for promotion there tho, which I've taken on because I am lazy when it comes to work and that was the easiest option - to stave off abject boredom if nothing else.

There are lots of things I probably "should" do to make my job better and get me more money and all that. But I basically can't be arsed. In retrospect I have made mistakes and settled for things rather than being "proactive" and all that. I am not unduly bothered about this - it's better than flogging yourself to death for your boss or some idealised notion of success.

Sometimes I like my job and sometimes I don't - but I am clear about what it is - a way to spend my time to ensure an income. I work for a charity, so how I spend my time makes the world a better place and I largely like the people I work with on a daily basis a great deal.

A lot of the self-improvement literature seems to imply that there is a perfect job out there for everyone which will fulfill them (and make them wealthy). This is clearly bullshit. It is all a trade off, a compromise, the least worst option of the choices available. But having said that, there are always choices, for most of us.

Only just seen this, but I think it's super-sound advice. I'm in the same psychological place I think - I'm probably gonna keep my day job, as I work with amazing people and the atmosphere is really laid back, even if my job itself bores me...

Re 'perfect job', agree totally. It's what i always say to friends wondering what to do/not sure 'wha tthey want to do in life'. Nothing is perfect - i know people who have amazing-sounding jobs, and yet who are still frustrated/annoyed, perhaps by those they work with, perhaps by bureaucracy, perhaps by starfuckery....

I work for a charity too, btw...lots to be said for working somewhere the goals of which accord with your own in some way.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
work must be abolished! capitalism is slavery!

(with that said, someone pleeeeeeeeeaaaaase give me a job????)
 

don_quixote

Trent End
Dunno the answer but if you find it please tell me. Spent the last couple of weeks invigilating exams for twelve pounds an hour - next week I'm counting pedestrians for market research. I get the odd bit of cash dj-ing and that's about it. No, tell a lie, I'm about to help my friends mix up some cocktails and sell them in the park - if anyone is in London Fields you'll probably see us in an hour or two so please buy lots.
Career though - fuck knows. I've applied for so many jobs to no avail (not even an interview) even though I'm qualified by experience and have a maths degree. I feel like giving up.

dude, the country is still crying out for maths teachers, and you still get the max grant for training and £5k bonus when you finish your first year. 2 years for £36k (some taxed but not all of it) is decent money and you've got a trade at the end of it which i reckon would be respected.

you have to like kids though and i won't lie it is bloody hard work. but at the end of 4ish years since i made that decision i don't regret it and it is a lot easier now.
 
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