White people ruining shit for other white people

[forclosure]

Exactly as the title says this was inspired by stories i've had people tell me a guy telling me he swore off rap for the longest time cause he was bullied in grade school by a "white trash shithead that worshipped Eminem. Dressed like him, looked like him, would quote him all the time" (see also @catalog and why some his responses to certain songs in my thread dedicated to him my come across upsetting/confusing when he ain't bolstering the Jafa/blunt industrial complex)

anytime a certain grey haired movie directors name comes up (you know who i'm on about but i'll let you speculate), all the "guy whose into x or guy that reads x" books out there

or if you wanna go further back the reason why people hate writers like Bukowski,Palinuik and why Hemmingway ain't taken seriously anymore

but THEN AGAIN the flipside of this could be seen in how the Insane Clown Posse and the furry community have seemingly gone from whipping boys and parriahs to the subcultural communities people wish the ones they belong to were more like at least in a material supportive sense (see Albini backing them and Violent J over the Deadheads recently) and of course people now in their 30s coming back to things they liked when they were teens and left out of embarassment and then picked up again cause weirdly they're seeing youngers now look and listen to the same shit they did at that age.

But it just seems to be this thing that happens in general so you lot tell me your stories what do unnu think on the matter?

 

[forclosure]

Yes i know i'm really coming with the threads latelym ones that really require thought and for people to expunge stories/anecdotes they might find embarassing

good

 

[forclosure]

i quote this line from Nocando but he was right when he said "nobody hates white rappers more than other white people"

especially from what my American friends have told me in the past where really aggressive Europeans step in and what to discuss why this thing they deem unimportant is actually better than whats hot right now like 3rd stringer backpack rappers or grime etc

and some of them have really CLUNG onto that for ages but i'd be lying if were to say somebody who i used to talk to on twitter telling me "GO FIND YOUR OWN CULTURE" in the exact moment he learnt that UK drill was a thing didn't still come to mind when i think of shite like this

 

[version]

I reckon it's middle class white people specifically rather than white people as a whole. That sort of debilitating self consciousness doesn't seem to be as present in the other classes.

 

[forclosure]

I reckon it's middle class white people specifically rather than white people as a whole. That sort of debilitating self consciousness doesn't seem to be as present in the other classes.

yeah that sounds about right you definitely don't get any of this from say scouse youts or dem lot up in Wigan who still blare out happy hardcore

I mean despite never really liking alot of the bands on the lineups the existence of say Download festival and them places even before the reappraising started picking up was proof that the people who liked this stuff never stopped liking it cause they would always try to save up the money to go.

Even if the headliners were the same just swapped around, just so they can get the armband and rock that thing for the next 2 years on their wrist

 

[forclosure]

@suspended you're contributions would be great here cause not only are you the only person(as far as i know) who still reps indie rock you still think there's paradigm shifting tings still going on like them speedy wunderman and Caroline polkadotshorts

if Crowl was on here i imagine you and them would have a good convo about Halsey

 

[version]

I think it might be a case of awareness without the direction or drive to act on it. You've got a lot of middle class white people now a bit more conscious of the massive faults in their system, but who don't really know what to do with that awareness beyond making a point of letting everyone know they feel bad about it.

 

[sus]

Surely this isn't really a racial thing and black people do this too

I'm a little confused is this a thread about cringey white people, or is it about how "types" emerge and develop reputations and then everything they touch is tainted

 

[luka]

it doesn't have any relation to race or class as far as im aware. the audience for an artist often put people off the art. the crowd a club attracts puts people off the club. the people that wear the clothes put people off the brand.

 

[version]

It's something I associate most heavily with very online people who went through the universities. People with the toolkit to pull things apart and who are very plugged in, but who can't really do anything except spot flaws.

 

[luka]

It's something I associate most heavily with very online people who went through the universities. People with the toolkit to pull things apart and who are very plugged in, but who can't really do anything except spot flaws.

'critique' terrible university habit

 

[Clinamenic]

Maybe this has already been covered elsewhere, but my experience in college and my general observations about our culture (war) ties in with something I remember from a Baldwin essay I read a while back.

There seems to be a tendency, I'd say among upper-middle class liberals and especially ones who don't have firsthand experience with some kind of non-trivial socio-economic marginalization, to interpret socially progressive culture as in culture, wherein identifying (and being identified) as such a marginalized person brings a certain cultural capital.

I say "among upper-middle class etc" because this is the socio-economic stratum where concerns for survival are less fundamental, more about thriving, upward mobility, self-realization, etc. And so that is the register which the socially progressive culture is impressing upon, in this case.

But this interpretation isn't just among progressives, in fact I'd say it may even be more palpable among reactionaries, EG the tendency to frame the economy of sympathy as a victim olympics.

Anyway it loosely ties into something from a Baldwin essay ("Stranger in the Village", I think) where he analyzes what whiteness effectively means in America, and how its sort of a non-category, something defined negatively, simply by not belonging to a more positively defined ethnic group.

And it makes sense to me, in this light, why there can be such a vacuum for white people who are exposed to progressive culture, witnessing marginalized communities building their solidarity with a sense of belonging, with increasingly front-page coverage (which we progressives would consider progress in terms of representation).

edit: removal of accidental period

 

[Clinamenic]

'critique' terrible university habit

Seconds before I make a critical post about progressive university culture.

 

[Clinamenic]

Maybe this has already been covered elsewhere, but my experience in college and my general observations about our culture (war) ties in with something I remember from a Baldwin essay I read a while back.

There seems to be a tendency, I'd say among upper-middle class liberals and especially ones who don't have firsthand experience with some kind of non-trivial socio-economic marginalization, to interpret socially progressive culture as in culture, wherein identifying (and being identified) as such a marginalized person brings a certain cultural capital.

I say "among upper-middle class etc" because this is the socio-economic stratum where concerns for survival are less fundamental, more about thriving, upward mobility, self-realization, etc. And so that is the register which the socially progressive culture is impressing upon, in this case.

But this interpretation isn't just among progressives, in fact I'd say it may even be more palpable among reactionaries, EG the tendency to frame the economy of sympathy as a victim olympics.

Anyway it loosely ties into something. from a Baldwin essay ("Stranger in the Village", I think) where he analyzes what whiteness effectively means in America, and how its sort of a non-category, something defined negatively, simply by not belonging to a more positively defined ethnic group.

And it makes sense to me, in this light, why there can be such a vacuum for white people who are exposed to progressive culture, witnessing marginalized communities building their solidarity with a sense of belonging, with increasingly front-page coverage (which we progressives would consider progress in terms of representation).

Anyway, I think this all breeds neuroses among upper middle class progressives, perhaps especially white ones, and these neuroses more directly tie into what I think @WebEschatology is talking about.

 

[forclosure]

it doesn't have any relation to race or class as far as im aware. the audience for an artist often put people off the art. the crowd a club attracts puts people off the club. the people that wear the clothes put people off the brand.

if it ain't then how come it keeps getting brought up through that lens?

 

[forclosure]

Surely this isn't really a racial thing and black people do this too

I'm a little confused is this a thread about cringey white people, or is it about how "types" emerge and develop reputations and then everything they touch is tainted

both really and what Clinamenic said

 

[forclosure]

I think it might be a case of awareness without the direction or drive to act on it. You've got a lot of middle class white people now a bit more conscious of the massive faults in their system, but who don't really know what to do with that awareness beyond making a point of letting everyone know they feel bad about it.

yeah they make a point but don't act on it because they're terrified of making things awkward

 

[version]

We were picking at this in the 'Bad Boy Chiller Crew' thread a while back too, the self-flagellating white person.

 

[forclosure]

Maybe this has already been covered elsewhere, but my experience in college and my general observations about our culture (war) ties in with something I remember from a Baldwin essay I read a while back.

There seems to be a tendency, I'd say among upper-middle class liberals and especially ones who don't have firsthand experience with some kind of non-trivial socio-economic marginalization, to interpret socially progressive culture as in culture, wherein identifying (and being identified) as such a marginalized person brings a certain cultural capital.

I say "among upper-middle class etc" because this is the socio-economic stratum where concerns for survival are less fundamental, more about thriving, upward mobility, self-realization, etc. And so that is the register which the socially progressive culture is impressing upon, in this case.

But this interpretation isn't just among progressives, in fact I'd say it may even be more palpable among reactionaries, EG the tendency to frame the economy of sympathy as a victim olympics.

Anyway it loosely ties into something from a Baldwin essay ("Stranger in the Village", I think) where he analyzes what whiteness effectively means in America, and how its sort of a non-category, something defined negatively, simply by not belonging to a more positively defined ethnic group.

And it makes sense to me, in this light, why there can be such a vacuum for white people who are exposed to progressive culture, witnessing marginalized communities building their solidarity with a sense of belonging, with increasingly front-page coverage (which we progressives would consider progress in terms of representation).

edit: removal of accidental period

and especially from communities who were once considered the worst dregs of it, as a Brit there's no equivalent over here to ICP and the following they've got its all through the internet how i've known and experienced them but the rush to see progressives be like "we need to align and express solidarity with them NOW" has been interesting

especially when somebody shows them random ICP lyrics and they look like they just found a body in the bushes

 

[forclosure]

We were picking at this in the 'Bad Boy Chiller Crew' thread a while back too, the self-flagellating white person.

self flagellating and the fact that an ethnic minority calls them out on that it gives them the sense that they're doing something