comics

connect_icut

Well-known member
oh you mean the entire project is bullshit. fair enough.

Yeah, I just wish the comics and movie industries would stop combining to sully Alan Moore's name in the public perception. And I wish DC could move beyond perpetuating a dumbed-down version of the "gritty" aesthetic it pioneered in the 70s and 80s.

To be fair though, when Watchmen was published, Moore did propose doing a series of prequels to the series. Presumably, he eventually decided this would be massively redundant.

Also to be fair to DC, they did just publish a trade paperback of Denny O'Neil's Venom, one of my favourite Batman stories. They should reprint Byrne's The Many Deaths of the Batman next. And do affordable versions of those Neal Adams collections.
 

petergunn

plywood violin
Yeah, I just wish the comics and movie industries would stop combining to sully Alan Moore's name in the public perception. And I wish DC could move beyond perpetuating a dumbed-down version of the "gritty" aesthetic it pioneered in the 70s and 80s.

To be fair though, when Watchmen was published, Moore did propose doing a series of prequels to the series. Presumably, he eventually decided this would be massively redundant.

Also to be fair to DC, they did just publish a trade paperback of Denny O'Neil's Venom, one of my favourite Batman stories. They should reprint Byrne's The Many Deaths of the Batman next. And do affordable versions of those Neal Adams collections.

i'd be curious to see a full list of all the batman stuff Adams did in the 70's...

Venom had been a TPB before, since it was the origin of Bane, i have it somewhere... but, yes, great story on it's own... i always liked Legends of The Dark Knight, they had some real cool stuff... the one annual/special issue where Batman is dragging the joker thru snow and massively hallucinating all these weird visions stuck with me...

this is it:

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i am prob going to check out those Watchmen things just for shits n giggles... i have zero expectations... if it appeals to my base instincts and i get to see rorshach throwing muggers thru plate glass and the comedian napalming vietcong, so be it... i actually would prefer it to be simple and stupid and let me revel in seeing these characters act out the roles Moore defined for them than see some halfwit comics writer try to be as deep n dark as Moore... less subtext, more smash/bang...
 

petergunn

plywood violin
has David Mazzuchelli's "Asterios Polyp" been discussed?

halfway thru it now, pretty good... the writing is decent (i was afraid it would suck) and the art is deceptively simple... at first i was bummed he had abandoned his old SUPERHERO style for a sort of twee indie comic thing, but he does things visually with the form that go above and beyond most people working in that style...

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D

droid

Guest
So Ive been reading the new watchmen. Nothing special. Not great, not bad, inhabiting the dull middle mostly.

Secret service by millar/gibbons has some lovely art but otherwise the same old shtick.

Richard Parker's 'the score' is very nicely put together:

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petergunn

plywood violin
So Ive been reading the new watchmen. Nothing special. Not great, not bad, inhabiting the dull middle mostly.

Secret service by millar/gibbons has some lovely art but otherwise the same old shtick.

Richard Parker's 'the score' is very nicely put together:

Parker-The-Score-Now-Available-in-Comics-Shops.jpg

i have been reading the minutemen one and the comedian one... both are so so... the art on the comedian one is ok, the writing is ridiculous... i can't believe this guy is supposed to be a good writer... Jackie Kennedy is suddenly some gun moll who wants marilyn rubbed out? oy vey... the ozymandias one looks mildly intrigueing... i mean, hey, len wein... also, jae lee draws much better than he used to 15 years ago...

hopefully the rorsarch one is not as corny as the comedian one has been...
 

connect_icut

Well-known member
Lein Wein's name was the only thing that made me think those Watchmen comics might have any redeeming features. I'm still not reading them, though.

Just finished a couple of new editions of classic non-English-language comics. "The Incal" by Jodorowsky and Moebius plus "Corto Maltese: Ballad of the Salt Sea" by Hugo Pratt. Both cracking good reads and "The Incal" may be the most simply beautiful comic book I've ever set eyes on.

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I think Pratt must have been a major influence on both Frank Miller and Gilberto Hernandez.
 

connect_icut

Well-known member
the heavy inking for sure... total sin city vibes... looks a little like Mazzuchelli circ Born Again and Year One as well...

The influence on Miller is well-established (he's even quoted on the back of the book) but that last panel really reminds me of Beto Hernandez.
 
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droid

Guest
'The Incal' is brilliant. Im thoroughly enjoying 'The New Deadwardians'. Zombies, Vampires, Stiff Upper Lips.
 
And I think that reference even made it into the first Tim Burton Batman movie.

Can't remember that one. But speaking of Hugo Pratt, I recently found a cheap copy of Indian Summer, written by him and drawn (very well) by Manara. A very ambivalent comic. It deals with sex and violence in Puritan New England, all quite unpleasant and ends in catastrophe. But it's also rendered in a voyeuristic (soft-)pornographic way, with shapely young women being abused and raped, so the taste of looking at a typical men's sex fantasy never goes away. The Corto Maltese albums are definitely much much better.
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
So I saw that this thread's been going for a while, and I posted on some things that never get mentioned, so I wanna bring them up again with maybe some opinion that might attract attention to them.

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Shadowhawk was fucking brilliant. For those who never read, it was made by early Image when they were just formulating the Spawn hype/buzz/mania/eventual fucking crash that shouldn't surprise anyone... *ahem* Was written with a mystery angle, where a vigilante superhero is any one of a number of... suspects, and you go through the first volume never knowing who your hero is. Meanwhile, they're almost a sort of Batman who partakes in killing their victims... And while the mystery is continuing, our protagonist is fighting criminals, super-villians who market themselves as a sort of 'super-powered' mafia extorting the city and attempting to offer 'protection', a sort of 'copycat' who's obsessed with murdering interracial couples, various mutants, police, citizens who mistake them as a serial killer due to their copycat and the general unsavoriness of their vengeance... Makes The Punisher look as meatheaded as it gets reduced to by it's more 'unsavory' fans. Also...

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Issues 150-225 of this, fucking crack. Unintentionally awful in certain places (Rogers telling Falcon "Don't sell me any of that jive..." should go down as one of the 10 greatest moments in humiliating writing in Marvel), yet really entertaining, also has some of the last Kirby moments, with some weirdly dated yet fascinating character designs.

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Again, more Kirby. This is actually dated as hell, and really shit, but was weird fun as a kid.

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I was bantering with Luka about anime/manga once, but I maintain, you have to fully embrace them NOT through the more compelling, brilliant forms (Akira, Anything Miyazaki turned into a film, etc.) but through the gateway drugs. Like, anyone can have 500 opinions on Akira, which to me, is laborous, dull, and really shitty character design...

Whereas, before they blew their load and started chasing the cash, CLAMP are a fucking brilliant studio at negotiating art with commerce. The stuff is obviously angled towards teenage girls, but the dramatic character designs, occasional brilliant scenery, and this awkward blend of... light-hearted feminism (save X/1999, who as an anime, the score has a BRILLIANT avant-garde jazz/classical score that I'd recommend even detached from it's namesake) married to slightly half-baked yet fascinating sort of esoteric themes. x/1999 deals with apololyptic quasi-Christian vibes, yet unlike the obvious selfishness of say, the more beloved Evangelion, it was always more focused on Kamui (the protagonist's) absolute fear of killing his best friend (essentially his Judas). Very reminiscent of The Last Temptation Of Christ in some ways... After the main run, xxxHolic was good, but when they released Tsubasa... the game was obviously over, and they just wanted to fulfill obligations.

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5


I can't stress this enough; Mobile Suit Gundam, either as an anime or as a Manga, is ART mistaken as Saturday Morning Cartoon fodder. Yes, it's giant robots slamming into each other in space, with lazer swords... But there's no mistaking the symbolism of a battleship being staffed with a military crew that is about 1/5th teenagers who've been 'impressed' by their protectors in order to fight off their foes to protect the ship and the robot that led to them becoming war orphans.

It's a little 70's in the design, which means it's still manga that wears the Disney influence on it's sleeve and not fully developed, but the writing is so post-war Japan. In a kind of Star Wars-esque cliche, the hero and his arch-nemesis are these psychic 'supermen' who serve as superior pilots for their respective sides of the military; but as opposed to Skywalker, the protagonist, Amuro, is blatantly in a constant state of abuse, and any adolescent indulgences get removed quickly due to the pressures of war. There's a scene in the early episodes where he's got to shoot some oncoming missile threatening to destroy the ship his friends live on... Since he's only just learned the damn thing, he's missing constantly, and then he screams out "PLEASE HIT IT!" and either in Japanese or English, it basically comes out as half-desperation half-tantrum. It basically spirals off into about 30 or so spin-offs, with the original spirit getting diluted further and further and varying levels of success, but the original is authentically great, and a real landmark in manga.

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I'm not going to pretend Fushigi Yuugi is all that, but it's some serious skill on Yuu Watase's part to turn Shinto esotericism into an actually compelling aspect to teen romance/fantasy/adventure. Ceres, Celestial Legend was also rather good, but I can barely remember it beyond that, so don't take my word for it.

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Also, the whole Marvel 2099 series seems like a gigantic tragedy. Spiderman as a selfish junkie... brilliant. A new X-Men led by a healer with DID, only to end up joining up with Magneto... Brilliant. A Punisher... who was just about the exact same thing as before, except bigger guns. Okay, not that big a step. But still, I totally suffer childhood nostalgia over this absolute tragedy. They should've given a lot more time into this.

Also, repeating myself one more time, and not drawing this out because I ran out of steam with the manga ranting... 100 Bullets is a brilliant one-off concept marred by a cheap but amusing 'war against the illuminati' plot; the existence of Scourge Of The Underworld >>> any fucking Deadpool run/in-joke; Runaways is right now the most improperly used weapon in Marvel's arsenal, I can't even remember 80% of the fucking anime/manga I used to foam at the mouth over in my teens before the boom became unbearable... And yeah, that's about it.
 
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petergunn

plywood violin
i was such a huge marvel fanboy and even i didn't buy marvel 2099!

shadowhawk i recall liking, i prob still have some back issues at my parent's house... i always preferred jim valentino when he just tried to draw 60's style, as he never seemed quite good enough of an artist to draw modern comics... on a similar note, i WAS a big fan of darkhawk, tho...

kirby, yes! that second run on Cap America is cool... i also have that Topps Kirby stuff at my parent's house, curious how it looks now... at that point, jack couldn't really draw, so the cover art and stuff is all old drawings... anyone at all interested in Kirby should get this book,,, i borrowed from the library and it's jaw dropping... a coffee table book and a bio together... tons and tons of art from every era of his career, from the 30's til his death... the 50's stuff is very interesting...

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petergunn

plywood violin
I'm going to hurt you by saying this, but...

I was in pre-school (3-5) when those issues came out. So, suffice to say, I hadn't had a discerning taste.

i didn't learn to read until kindergarten... :eek:

spent a nice weekend at home going thru my old comics... cannot believe i was dopey enough to buy all the cover variants on BOTH X-Force #1 and X-Men #1... :eek:

reread the Batman Knightfall/Bane thing in light of the movie... it's still pretty cool, tho batman took a dive when Norm Breyfogle left...

was suprised how much I enjoyed reading all my old "what if's"... the "what if marvel superheros lost atlantis attacks" is the best thing ever... ends w/ the planet earth populated by mindless lizard men... so great...
http://bullyscomics.blogspot.com/2011/02/seven-brides-for-seven-serpents.html


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droid

Guest
reread the Batman Knightfall/Bane thing in light of the movie... it's still pretty cool, tho batman took a dive when Norm Breyfogle left...

Dear god man, no. It's fucking awful. Practically unreadable IMO.

Rorschach/Dr. Manhattan have raised the bar slightly for before watchmen. 'Secret Service' isn't mindblowing, but still one of the best Millar things Ive read.
 
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