Anyone ever heard of nonverbal learning disorder (NVLD)? It's worse than it sounds...

0bleak

Well-known member
Most people haven't heard of it, and I usually just say that I have autism to keep it short (there is a LOT of overlap and it's possible to have both... I also have the characteristics of autism although I was officially diagnosed with NVLD).
There are also degrees of NVLD like there are of autism in that some people with NVLD aren't as affected when it comes to a number of the deficits (unfortunately, that's not me).
It seems that one of the main differences is that people with autism are visual thinkers, and people with NVLD are verbal thinkers (it's kind of a curse because people don't understand how people that are verbally competent can fail at everything).

I once found a post by someone that couldn't have put it better:

It is caused by having a damaged/deformed Corpus Callosum (neurons which connect and relay information between the two hemispheres of your brain).
It basically means you have a high verbal IQ but in every other way you are retarded. It's often mistaken/misdiagnosed as autism but it's basically inverted Autism. You are able to speak clearly (although sometimes people think I speak in a strange way) and fluently but are in a severe deficit for things like math/science/music/art/everything else. This actually makes it worse because while autists usually have marketable talents, people with NVLD are basically screwed.
Another common issue with people who have this form of brain damage is that when they were younger they often did very well in early elementary school and were constantly praised for it. But as they got older (usually after the first couple of grade levels) and their disability began to manifest, they fell further behind their peers. This often leads to a complete collapse of ego and a lifetime of self hatred and low self esteem as things only get worse with age. Many simply withdraw from society all together, since they will never be able to compete and people often treat them poorly.
The high verbal IQ is often more of a hindrance than a help as well since being verbose often times makes people overestimate you and when they see how clumsy and clueless you actually are they recoil.
Unlike your common variety of idiot who is often so stupid that he doesn't realize how bad he has it, the one type of intelligence that NVLD sufferers actually posses allows them to realize how badly they are being shafted. This breeds anger and endless frustration. Many people with NVLD also have extreme tempers due to all the pent up frustration and loneliness in their lives.

I also HATE HATE HATE how people assume that since I'm a cishetero white guy that I've had an easy life even though I started thinking about suicide around the age of 8 and still constantly think about it every single fucking day, decades later. What has always stopped me? It's knowing that I'll fuck that up, too, and just end up EVEN WORSE.

I also HATE HATE HATE the mental health system because, for so long, since most people don't know (and still don't know) about NVLD, and that all problems were/are of my own making - also goes for family, friends, or whatever.

Even when people do know I have it, it still seems impossible for them to comprehend.

The older I've become, the more and more that I've shut myself off from the outside world.

In the last decade or so, I usually go months at a time before going to the outside world.
 

0bleak

Well-known member
"Bradley" found out when he was 7 or 8 so imagine having NVLD with the deficits on the more severe side, and not having a diagnosis until decades later because it has been so unknown, and it's not that having a diagnosis really changes much for you when you find out that late.
Bradley.jpg
 

0bleak

Well-known member
For the record, any of the above politically incorrect words or descriptions in the first post that you might find offensive were not written by me, but by the person I was quoting. I've thought about changing it, but that's how they wrote it.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
(there is a LOT of overlap and it's possible to have both... I also have the characteristics of autism although I was officially diagnosed with NVLD).
There are also degrees of NVLD like there are of autism in that some people with NVLD aren't as affected when it comes to a number of the deficits

Yeah, me and my brother both suffer from Norrie disease, which has visual and hearing impairments, but also comes with so-called 'learning difficulties.' I tend to have dispensed with the search for diagnoses because the way that blind people think as such doesn't neatly correspond to the visual/verbal paradigm. In that when we think non-verbally we tend to think of objects, places and memories, rather than picturing them as something to be observed. The concept of an image as such is entirely foreign to me. if someone tells me to picture a table, what I will think of is a table I can touch or bump into, or a table placed in a room, not something I can visualise with my eyes.

You'd be surprised how difficult it is to explain this to a mental health professional.
 

luka

Well-known member
the best way to make yourself unhappy is to compare yourself to other people. we're all mentally retarded here, physically runtish, drastically unsucessful, but there's no point dwelling on it. so long as you don't compare yourself you can be reasonably happy as an inferior specimen from bad stock and a slavish, peasant line.
 

luka

Well-known member
this is a poem i wrote

When, in disgrace with fortune and men’s eyes,
I all alone beweep my outcast state,
And trouble deaf heaven with my bootless cries,
And look upon myself and curse my fate,
Wishing me like to one more rich in hope,
Featured like him, like him with friends possessed,
Desiring this man’s art and that man’s scope,
With what I most enjoy contented least;
Yet in these thoughts myself almost despising,
Haply I think on thee, and then my state,
(Like to the lark at break of day arising
From sullen earth) sings hymns at heaven’s gate;
For thy sweet love remembered such wealth brings
That then I scorn to change my state with kings.
 

william_kent

Well-known member
the best way to make yourself unhappy is to compare yourself to other people. we're all mentally retarded here, physically runtish, drastically unsucessful, but there's no point dwelling on it. so long as you don't compare yourself you can be reasonably happy as an inferior specimen from bad stock and a slavish, peasant line.

my ancestors were essentially slaves, we called them "serfs" in the UK, one of them learned how to read and write, and he vanity published a book of poems - and fuck, it was bad! the worst doggerel you can imagine!
 

luka

Well-known member
apart from matthew ingram who is descended from the norman barons we are all slaves here. visibly and obviously inferior and bred to be submissive and fit only for menial tasks and obedience.
 

william_kent

Well-known member
apart from matthew ingram who is descended from the norman barons we are all slaves here. visibly and obviously inferior and bred to be submissive and fit only for menial tasks and obedience.

I have an Irish king* in my family tree but what good did that do me? fuck all

* when "king" meant hardest man in the village, and he got kicked out, had to flee to Scotland
 

chava

Well-known member
Most people haven't heard of it, and I usually just say that I have autism to keep it short (there is a LOT of overlap and it's possible to have both... I also have the characteristics of autism although I was officially diagnosed with NVLD).
There are also degrees of NVLD like there are of autism in that some people with NVLD aren't as affected when it comes to a number of the deficits (unfortunately, that's not me).
It seems that one of the main differences is that people with autism are visual thinkers, and people with NVLD are verbal thinkers (it's kind of a curse because people don't understand how people that are verbally competent can fail at everything).

I once found a post by someone that couldn't have put it better:

It is caused by having a damaged/deformed Corpus Callosum (neurons which connect and relay information between the two hemispheres of your brain).
It basically means you have a high verbal IQ but in every other way you are retarded. It's often mistaken/misdiagnosed as autism but it's basically inverted Autism. You are able to speak clearly (although sometimes people think I speak in a strange way) and fluently but are in a severe deficit for things like math/science/music/art/everything else. This actually makes it worse because while autists usually have marketable talents, people with NVLD are basically screwed.
Another common issue with people who have this form of brain damage is that when they were younger they often did very well in early elementary school and were constantly praised for it. But as they got older (usually after the first couple of grade levels) and their disability began to manifest, they fell further behind their peers. This often leads to a complete collapse of ego and a lifetime of self hatred and low self esteem as things only get worse with age. Many simply withdraw from society all together, since they will never be able to compete and people often treat them poorly.
The high verbal IQ is often more of a hindrance than a help as well since being verbose often times makes people overestimate you and when they see how clumsy and clueless you actually are they recoil.
Unlike your common variety of idiot who is often so stupid that he doesn't realize how bad he has it, the one type of intelligence that NVLD sufferers actually posses allows them to realize how badly they are being shafted. This breeds anger and endless frustration. Many people with NVLD also have extreme tempers due to all the pent up frustration and loneliness in their lives.

I also HATE HATE HATE how people assume that since I'm a cishetero white guy that I've had an easy life even though I started thinking about suicide around the age of 8 and still constantly think about it every single fucking day, decades later. What has always stopped me? It's knowing that I'll fuck that up, too, and just end up EVEN WORSE.

I also HATE HATE HATE the mental health system because, for so long, since most people don't know (and still don't know) about NVLD, and that all problems were/are of my own making - also goes for family, friends, or whatever.

Even when people do know I have it, it still seems impossible for them to comprehend.

The older I've become, the more and more that I've shut myself off from the outside world.

In the last decade or so, I usually go months at a time before going to the outside world.

Are you familiar with the work of Iain McGIlchrist? He explains really well the function of the Corpus Callosum; maybe he also mentions NVLD somewhere

 

luka

Well-known member
some people think you can ease your own suffering by considering people who are even more miserable than yourself but ive never found that to be the case.
 

0bleak

Well-known member
Are you familiar with the work of Iain McGIlchrist? He explains really well the function of the Corpus Callosum; maybe he also mentions NVLD somewhere


Don't think so, but I have looked into some of those fascinating examples of people of split brains.

I've seen some research where it looks like people with NVLD tend to have a significantly smaller splenium - "the thick posterior part of the corpus callosum of the brain."

"The splenium has been shown to be involved in visuospatial information transfer, language, reading and calculation scores, IQ, behavior and consciousness"
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
some people think you can ease your own suffering by considering people who are even more miserable than yourself but ive never found that to be the case.
This only works if you're a psychopath who can have a good old chuckle over a heartwrenching Guardian article about heroin-addicted, HIV-positive child soldiers in some godforsaken third-world hellscape.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
I think what @luka is saying ties in with the conservative idea of the 'culture of resentment' that people like Roger Scruton and Harold Bloom talked about, which I have a lot of time for as I get older tbh. If you want to be happy you have to just work with what you've got with the people around you.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
It sounds pretty harsh - I'm aware that it's a bit like saying "life's not fair, just deal with it" - and it's easy for some people to say, of course, but you can't change the world, you can only really change yourself.
 

0bleak

Well-known member
The unhappiness isn't really coming from comparing myself to other people, though.
The unhappiness is not being able to do anything competently, and from people not understanding it, and being tired of how even the most simple of tasks can pose a big challenge, not ever being able to socialize adequately, absolute shit motor skills, and how some things have just compounded on top of each other and become worse.
There might be some psychological damage in there as well (see the above post about "Bradley"), but I've had no successful help through the mental health system with therapists or drugs.
I also didn't get any early intervention which could have maybe helped with some issues like motor skills or anything else caused by the NVLD because I didn't get a proper diagnosis until I was about 30. Even after diagnosis, therapists were unhelpful, and before that was a shitshow of unhelpful therapists just attacking me and saying I'm a "rebel without a cause" and/or basically saying that all my problems were of my own making, and also being involuntarily committed to mental hospitals a number of times.
 
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