don_quixote
Trent End
the difference between portillo and the mps on qt was that portillo's political career is dead.
BNP on Question Time
- Thread starter baboon2004
- Start date
scottdisco
rip this joint please
splendid, splendid news.
i'd like to say it was all very well my optimistically quoting Coates earlier wrt the Front National falling away atm in France after two decades or so in the ascendancy, but the key phrase in my sentence here is "in the ascendancy".
if, say, 20% of those 22% of people representative of the British electorate vote for the BNP in a general election, this will invariably mean more hollowing out of our asylum seeker obligations as the major parties play catch-up (you'd think).
that's just for a start.
:slanted:
think Danny L spot on. as John said right at the start (and myself to a far lesser extent if i may blow my own) practical stuff about how rubbish their councillors are in west Yorkshire or east Lancashire or where-ever would have been a far better platform on which to attack them than telling Griffin what he really is. those of us that don't like them know all that, whereas people who may need to be persuaded away from their maw may need arguments appealing to good old-fashioned self-interest.
(granted i know a few people who stopped relatives voting for them at the MEPs by explaining why other options were better and of course this included their neo-fash heritage.)
Hague the latest MP this morning to say he would have preferred if the programme concerned had mentioned "the full range" of issues, to better expose them.
i'd like to say it was all very well my optimistically quoting Coates earlier wrt the Front National falling away atm in France after two decades or so in the ascendancy, but the key phrase in my sentence here is "in the ascendancy".
if, say, 20% of those 22% of people representative of the British electorate vote for the BNP in a general election, this will invariably mean more hollowing out of our asylum seeker obligations as the major parties play catch-up (you'd think).
that's just for a start.
:slanted:
think Danny L spot on. as John said right at the start (and myself to a far lesser extent if i may blow my own) practical stuff about how rubbish their councillors are in west Yorkshire or east Lancashire or where-ever would have been a far better platform on which to attack them than telling Griffin what he really is. those of us that don't like them know all that, whereas people who may need to be persuaded away from their maw may need arguments appealing to good old-fashioned self-interest.
(granted i know a few people who stopped relatives voting for them at the MEPs by explaining why other options were better and of course this included their neo-fash heritage.)
Hague the latest MP this morning to say he would have preferred if the programme concerned had mentioned "the full range" of issues, to better expose them.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
very true
scottdisco
rip this joint please
hah! who can argue w a testimonial from such a fair-minded, egalitarian woman?!
that said, in fairness to Straw, i bet she wasn't saying that when he was all up in Augusto's base, messing w Pinochet's walking stick
scottdisco
rip this joint please
just read Danny's link from het graun, cheers Danny, nice one.
quote from the end from a young 19 yo man i want to excerpt, emphases mine
on the first point, if Griffin had been allowed to expand on this, then people would've had to applaud if they were honest, given a majority of Britons share that viewpoint. the second emphasis is left in for head-desk reasons.
quote from the end from a young 19 yo man i want to excerpt, emphases mine
on the first point, if Griffin had been allowed to expand on this, then people would've had to applaud if they were honest, given a majority of Britons share that viewpoint. the second emphasis is left in for head-desk reasons.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well yeah, obviously, but that doesn't mean he isn't able to influence people's views or keep a finger on the pulse of some economic-realist, not-totally-xenophobic faction of the Tory party, if such a thing exists (though it probably doesn't, for all I know - UK politics bods got any input here?).
scottdisco
rip this joint please
i fear Portillo has as much input to the Conservative and Unionist Party as i do.
Cameron is a smart strategist and will - to an extent - stake out positions dependent on which way the wind is blowing (so, like Labour then). that said, i think he is more wedded to his core principles than the govt *.
his recent conference speech was a master class in blaming the victim and somehow largely getting away w it (as well as such other classy efforts as playing politics w the Crown Prosecution Service).
i can't see a Tory administration - especially given they chose to leave the mainstream conservative bloc in the European parliament and voluntarily join up w a load of cranks who share very similar analyses on important issues to Griffin - giving me much hope in this area.
isn't he pledging to scrap the HRA?
oh, yes.
he is.
* that's not a compliment.
Cameron is a smart strategist and will - to an extent - stake out positions dependent on which way the wind is blowing (so, like Labour then). that said, i think he is more wedded to his core principles than the govt *.
his recent conference speech was a master class in blaming the victim and somehow largely getting away w it (as well as such other classy efforts as playing politics w the Crown Prosecution Service).
i can't see a Tory administration - especially given they chose to leave the mainstream conservative bloc in the European parliament and voluntarily join up w a load of cranks who share very similar analyses on important issues to Griffin - giving me much hope in this area.
isn't he pledging to scrap the HRA?
oh, yes.
he is.
* that's not a compliment.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
one of the other two Shiraz big hitters (it's a group blog) echoes his comrade's assessment
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
But isn't the whole Out ouf Africa theory also built on dust?
scottdisco
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yes fair play, it's the Straw point that i think deserves highlighting in the thing above really.
re snide points: Griffin's aside about Straw's conscientious objector father was hardly large-hearted either..
re snide points: Griffin's aside about Straw's conscientious objector father was hardly large-hearted either..
don_quixote
Trent End
i do wonder if nick griffin calls his 2:2 a desmond though
mistersloane
heavy heavy monster sound
No, to my knowledge it's still extant, they're just arguing about when the original migration happened; it's all to do with that skull from Tbilisi. There's speculation about whether the Eurasian model was a separate development but personally I doubt it, history has always underestimated the ability of mammals to spread perniciously and vastly.
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
I thought it was one of three theories and still unproven.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
what are the three theories then?
are they basically (to crudely reduce incredibly complex blah blah)
out of Africa
multi-region
out of Africa, turns up in Georgia, goes back to Africa and then leaves again ?
more or less?
i thought before the Tbilisi skull initiated changes in thinking most mainstream thinking was basically behind out of Africa full stop?
Tea or Nomad to thread!!
are they basically (to crudely reduce incredibly complex blah blah)
out of Africa
multi-region
out of Africa, turns up in Georgia, goes back to Africa and then leaves again ?
more or less?
i thought before the Tbilisi skull initiated changes in thinking most mainstream thinking was basically behind out of Africa full stop?
Tea or Nomad to thread!!
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Wish I could help you, scott, but this is not something I have any special knowldedge of at all. As interesting as it is, however, I think it's entirely irrelevant to the immigration debate to anyone other than racist idiots who like to talk about the demographics of human reproduction as if they were breeding greyhounds. When someone like Greer allows themselves to be sucked into this chat, then even f they're using sound science to combat the pseudoscience or willfull misinterpretations of science from racists, there's a risk that they're bestowing on that whole area of discourse a relevance it really doesn't deserve.
Completely agree. I found it so infuriating when (during the discussion of whether Islam was 'wicked') someone in the audience piped up with a comment along the lines of "but isn't Old Testament Christianity just as awful and misogynist, etc.."
I couldn't believe anyone would be keen to turn it into a ludicrous squabble about theology. That sort of thing plays directly into Griffin's hands.
mistersloane
heavy heavy monster sound
Um I think Martin might be being pedantic about the Mitochondrial Eve thing, sorry if that's not the case though Martin.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
Yeah isn't it basically conceded at this point that everybody comes from one woman in Africa and then all Ys are traced to one guy in Africa from a few hundred miles away (who is, actually, if I'm remembering correctly, supposed to have evolved a few thousand years later).
Just because a "theory" in science is still contested here and there by some doesn't mean that it isn't basically conceded to be true by the larger community.
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
The theory is strong but that's all it is, when I see the words probably and story in science articles it makes me wonder. Same with the Ghengis Khan Effect and so on...
It doesn't really help with the BNP issue as Mr T suggested above.