shakahislop
Well-known member
I suppose I do find it a bit offputting that they're more or less saying that they'd prefer it if I didn't show up to thier thing. You need a pretty strong justification to do that I think.
if New York can die so can London
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well you are committing a fairly serious case of 'digital blackface', Mr Shaka Hislop...
maxi
Well-known member
I dunno the sentiment is pretty weird. what is it actually asking people to do.. be uncomfortable? lol it's not saying anything concrete ('be aware of how you move') but is more like a passive aggressive attempt to instil a sense of shame in their own customers. which I guess is part of the appeal for self-flagellating americans
wektor
Well-known member
I fink the problem is some people actually do need reminding of very basic things. It's like dealing with an autist (except in this case, there's little justification) in that you're explaining something somewhat obvious (ie. be respectful and don't make other people uncomfortable).
I think the aggression is coming from the front of organising events that become widely regarded as "cool" at some point or take place at more high street venues, where you would randomly get a bunch of coked up lads (of whatever skin colour actually) that are unaware of basic club etiquette. It's upsetting you have to talk about things so basic.
I remember seeing some nights in London being ticketed separately if you're a straight guy and that's already a bit funny, but I think they want to discourage a specific kind of crowd by doing so. 8 quid if you're queer, 15 if you're straight. "I'm bicurious can you do a tenner perhaps"?
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
This segregationist mindset is not helpful to anybody.
Do they have to say it in this particular way though? Are they afraid of being sued if they just say "Don't be a dickhead," or tell people to fuck off? Bouncers are allowed to use violence, so I don't know why there's this timidity in the language. It's like being spoken to by a robot therapist.
I suppose you could argue language sets the tone and that aggressive sort of language would be more in tune with the vibe they're trying to stamp out, so they're going for a bland, neutralising approach, but there's just something about it that prompts a visceral response in me the same way advertising or the automated message when you're put on hold does.
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
Their announcement is just pushing people to do what they should do anyway: to boycott an event with a grossly racist premise.
I don't see the Notting Hill carnival indulging in this sort of thing, and yet people seem to be broadly happy, irrespective of how much light their skin reflects.
I don't see the Notting Hill carnival indulging in this sort of thing, and yet people seem to be broadly happy, irrespective of how much light their skin reflects.
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
The drift is that the territory is for this event under the control of some other tribe, and the vagueness of the warning is meant to convey how it feels to be an outsider in that situation i.e. one is aware that there are rules but not quite what the rules are exactly. Maybe this is a clever way to show the majority how minorities feel or maybe it's a clever way to tell minorities how they should be feeling during the 360 non-festival days, and that the dynamic is to be accepted in both cases.
yyaldrin
in je ogen waait de wind
what is the amapiano in the park and why would you feel silly?
shakahislop
Well-known member
yeah you're basically right. finding a way to stop the coked up gropey lads is for sure a much discussed issue in nyc clubland. house of yes for example is by all accounts much degraded because it got so well known and the people who don't know what they're doing / have different concepts of what a club should be started coming over there. I think people have learned from that experience. the 'proper' brooklyn clubs have various ways of dealing with it (basement = strict door, nowadays = the speech on the door and chucking people out). also all of them benefit from being a massive pain in the arse to get to. and actually it does work. there's one megaclub (avant gardener \ mirage) which doesn't bother with this and serves the purpose of absorbing the mainstream lads who want to give Brooklyn clubbing a go. knockdown center is kind of in between those two poles and is massive with big name techno bookings
dweller though is taking place only in the proper clubs which are already all over making people act right. It's exclusively in those ones (ie the good ones)
shakahislop
Well-known member
thinking about it I'd say that the emphasis on behaviour is a central feature of nyc club land at the moment, seems distinctive compared to previous eras (although my only first hand point of comparison is like non-london d&b nights so...)
Mr. Naga Pickle
Well-known member
life is short. go to Amapiano in the Park.
other_life
bioconfused
ordinary aggression (!= violence, per se) has become pathologised to precisely this point of not-quite-expressibility. and it's not just clubland
oh so now you're Mr. Too Damn Dialectical
0bleak
Well-known member
Imagine reading this if you're mentally disabled and you are already always concerned about social blunders - now you feel even more nervous about going out, but you now feel even further marginalized by these people that are supposedly so concerned about social justice (but it seems only ever when it seems to come to race/sex/lgbtq+) because you feel like one unintentional social blunder might blow up in your face
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I expect if you manage not to absent-mindedly throw a Hitler salute or loudly wonder whether slavery was all that bad really, you'll probably be fine.
0bleak
Well-known member
You might be surprised. I think people are _actively_ looking for reasons to be offended by white men, even when those white men are trying to be helpful.
"Oh, you're using your cell phone light in the dark at this party in the forest, well then I'm going to assume you're a cop and start yelling loudly about you acting like a cop instead of thinking that maybe you were trying to light the way for people in the middle of a dark forest at this party"