K-Punk

[IdleRich]

I listened to a bit of an interview with a guy called John Cussans who said Mark and Nick Land ended up deifying capitalism because they never logged off and got out of their bubble and just assumed THE world operated the same way as their world.

There's a pretty harsh comment along those lines underneath the vid too,

That pretty well puts into words something I often thought.

 

[shiels]

I dont think that criticism holds much value. used on a lot people.... with any obsession. grow up! be sensible! obviously we model the 'real world' from the interactions and communities we regularly experience. but the idea that there is some verifiable reality beyond this that does not rely on worship and deification of some sort is also a bit of an illusion

 

[IdleRich]

Not the bit about growing up but the generalisation from his own experience. Of course we all do that, it's the only thing we can do in one sense... but, in the days when I would read his blog, I found it way too reliant on that leap.

 

[version]

I dont think that criticism holds much value. used on a lot people.... with any obsession. grow up! be sensible! obviously we model the 'real world' from the interactions and communities we regularly experience. but the idea that there is some verifiable reality beyond this that does not rely on worship and deification of some sort is also a bit of an illusion

I'm curious what that person's definition of an adult is.

 

[luka]

ive certainly never had a role model or any mentor or other person to initiate me into adulthood and im sure thats true or pretty much everyone now

 

[version]

but the idea that there is some verifiable reality beyond this that does not rely on worship and deification of some sort is also a bit of an illusion

That wasn't the point being made. He was talking specifically about a certain way of thinking about capitalism. The whole "capitalist realism" thing, the way Land talks about it etc. He said there are places you can go and cultures and practices you can engage with which do not operate according to the dynamic people like Mark and Nick present as inescapable and that they believe it's inescapable because they take their bubble for the world.

 

[poetix]

I don't recall Mark being particularly addicted to his phone tbh. As for initiatory experiences, between the evil sex doctor and Nick Land I rather think he had too many of those.

 

[version]

I don't recall Mark being particularly addicted to his phone tbh. As for initiatory experiences, between the evil sex doctor and Nick Land I rather think he had too many of those.

I dunno that Nick Land would qualify as an initiatory role model for adulthood.

 

[poetix]

It's all a bit dubious anyway, Iron John/sweat lodge stuff. A packaged limit experience you flog to anomic urbanites who haven't got any sort of a grip on themselves. I don't want to come off as some sort of self-appointed expert on adulthood, but no part of my self-understanding as (amongst other things) a father of three comes from having been shown how to be a Real Man by another Real Man. Life is a vale of soul-making, there are no big-bang golden tickets to maturity. If you look at the people peddling this shit, they're nearly always revolting bores and fuck-ups who have resorted to magical thinking to make sense of life stories that are mostly a trail of selfish dead-ends - that self-mythologising thing inveterate narcissists do to compensate for having lived badly, hurt others, and never taken responsibility for a single moment of it.

 

[woops]

anomic urbanites

urbanites + anomic = urbanomic is this where it comes from?

 

[version]

It's all a bit dubious anyway, Iron John/sweat lodge stuff. A packaged limit experience you flog to anomic urbanites who haven't got any sort of a grip on themselves. I don't want to come off as some sort of self-appointed expert on adulthood, but no part of my self-understanding as (amongst other things) a father of three comes from having been shown how to be a Real Man by another Real Man. Life is a vale of soul-making, there are no big-bang golden tickets to maturity. If you look at the people peddling this shit, they're nearly always revolting bores and fuck-ups who have resorted to magical thinking to make sense of life stories that are mostly a trail of selfish dead-ends - that self-mythologising thing inveterate narcissists do to compensate for having lived badly, hurt others, and never taken responsibility for a single moment of it.

Yes, this is why I'm curious what that person's definition of adulthood is.

I kind of get what they mean about the fixation on pop culture, but at the same time, it's popular partly because lots of adults engage with it. I imagine their response to that would be to say, yes, it's a generational affliction, but then surely Shakespeare was the popular culture of his day, would someone at the time be failing to "grow up" by taking an interest in his plays or does it only count from the late-20th century onward?

 

[john eden]

spot on.

 

[luka]

thats the sadmanbarty perspective. it was very unpopular here though!

 

[sufi]

spot on.

full disclosure: that man is from cafe oto

 

[IdleRich]

He is... was racking my brains to think how I knew the name.

 

[luka]

i have a soft spot for Oto but theres no more conservative venue when it comes to music. you'll never ever be surprised.

 

[shiels]

I vaguely remember saying that same thing in response to Reynolds or kpunk when I was first on this forum, but came to agree with them partly, not in terms of slowing formal innovations but the thing about infrastructure and distribution and real world focal points

 

[luka]

 

[luka]

might adopt this character as a group punching bag

 

[version]

Who's it actually addressing? I don't know anyone who doesn't engage with at least some new music, film, TV etc. It just feels like an attack on a vague impression of how certain people feel about contemporary culture when they're in a shit mood and venting online -- even Mark was listening to Drake, James Blake and whatnot.