Brexit Day

[IdleRich]

Obviously I'm not blaming you (I just find your attitude a bit weird) and yeah there were numerous strategic, tactical and downright inexplicable errors in parliament, by both sides in fact. I don't disagree there. For me the main thing I'd pinpoint is the hubristic decision to vote for an election which the polls predicted could not be won, when the status quo was so problematic for Tories and appeared to be eroding their support. But there were other crucial moments.

 

[john eden]

Or have I got this all wrong and it's really some sort of accelerationist programme, "thing have got to get worse before they can get better" type deal? Like it goes Step 1: Brexit, Step 2:????, Step 3: anarcho-socialist utopia? (OK so that sounds snider than I meant it, but I understand some people genuinely think it's going to provide the shock that finally ends capitalism here - but then we heard that about the 2008 crash and here we are, in 2020, with a Tory government.)

This phase of neoliberal capitalism is failing. The most likely outcome of that will be:

1. Another more brutal form of capitalism.
2. Fascism
3. Something else.

But despite this we must take some comfort from the fact that people are categorically pissed off about their standard of living decaying and the ecosystem being in peril.

They may well express that badly, but I do think there is a growing awareness of the structural forces at work.

There is no utopianism there though. Describing the forces at work is not the same as delighting in it all.

 

[version]

I voted to remain in an effort to keep a wedge between us and the US and prevent the Tories from being able to weaken various protections. Obviously you can go "Well, the EU are neoliberal too", but the Tories and the US seem to want to take it further than they do whilst having greater disregard for the public interest and I just never saw a way in which leaving a neoliberal project and handing more power to an even more rabid group of neoliberals could be anything but a disaster.

 

[john eden]

Obviously I'm not blaming you (I just find your attitude a bit weird).

My attitude IS a bit weird.

 

[DannyL]

This phase of neoliberal capitalism is failing. The most likely outcome of that will be:

1. Another more brutal form of capitalism.
2. Fascism
3. Something else.

But despite this we must take some comfort from the fact that people are categorically pissed off about their standard of living decaying and the ecosystem being in peril.

They may well express that badly, but I do think there is a growing awareness of the structural forces at work.

There is no utopianism there though. Describing the forces at work is not the same as delighting in it all.

Good post but point 3 is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

 

[IdleRich]

But despite this we must take some comfort from the fact that people are categorically pissed off about their standard of living decaying and the ecosystem being in peril.

We gotta take comfort from the fact that bad things annoy people? It's worse than I thought.

 

[john eden]

Yes, it is worse than a lot of people think.

 

[IdleRich]

So... people are or aren't getting annoyed enough?

 

[IdleRich]

Without chopping logic though... I agree that people are getting more and more annoyed and one would hope, expect that was a force for change. But when? It kinda feels as though people will just get more and more miserable and then the world will end.

 

[john eden]

Being annoyed is only one of the things that’s needed.

 

[version]

I don't think it matters how annoyed people get because their annoyance is easy to redirect.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I don't think it matters how annoyed people get because their annoyance is easy to redirect.

This is, precisely, the crux of it.

 

[Mr. Tea]

People are rightly angry about austerity, crime, the state of the NHS and everything else, but many of them are blaming the EU or - even more bizarrely, after a decade of Tory (mis)rule - Labour.

 

[john eden]

Good post but point 3 is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

It’s the least likely of the 3, so in this context it doesn’t really seem worth speculating about much.

 

[john eden]

I’m sure Tea will think this is hilarious

 

[Mr. Tea]

I’m sure Tea will think this is hilarious

I suppose it was inevitable really.

What do you think about it?

 

[john eden]

I suppose it was inevitable really.

What do you think about it?

I think that this kind of punching down "humour" is exactly what caused Brexit.

 

[HMGovt’s Glorious Return!]

The funniest thing about Brexit will be the #FBPE midwits claiming they were all for it when it turns out nowhere near as bad as anticipated.

Weren't we supposed to be under martial law and offering up our first born for a loaf of bread by now?

 

[Mr. Tea]

I think that this kind of punching down "humour" is exactly what caused Brexit.

Oh really, John. It was definitely all the fault of vile snobbish middle-class liberals like me, with our education and our cappuccinos, wasn't it. And definitely not two campaigns bankrolled by xenophobic aristocrats and tax-dodging multimillionaire bankers, backed by a hostile foreign power and amplified by a wildly reactionary and dishonest print media, that both broke UK electoral law and relied on a relentless barrage of lies, many of them nakedly racist? Definitely not that?

You might just as well be reading from a UKIP leaflet at this point. Frankly it's quite painful to watch.

Anyway, what fucking humour? You've shoved this thing under my nose in an attempt to convict me of class hatred, I've asked you what you think of it and you've gone "Aha!" as if I'd just called them a pair of subhuman morons.

The absolute state of you, mate. Seriously.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Interesting choice of language, too - "punching down". These people have got what they wanted - to take back control. So they're the country's new ruling class, aren't they?