Wuhan Killer Sneeze (thanks Tea)

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chava

chava

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
It might not entail it, but they often do, especially about the pandemic. "It's no worse than flu, lockdowns are for wimps, masks are an affront to liberty and we'll all have herd immunity soon anyway" has been the right-wing orthodoxy from day 1.
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Libertarian right wing, mind you. Conservatives should in principle be in favour of locking down.

The Swedish administration is hardly considered right wing. The only party who favours lockdown and masks are the Swedish Democrats who are considered far right
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
chava said:
Libertarian right wing, mind you. Conservatives should in principle be in favour of locking down.

The Swedish administration is hardly considered right wing. The only party who favours lockdown and masks are the Swedish Democrats who are considered far right
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Ok, I guess I was mainly talking about the Anglophone world.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
@mixed_biscuits - this from 'MD' in the current issue of Private Eye, who (as an actual doctor) is better informed than any of us:

MD1.jpg

So he's not, by any means, an alarmist. Continues:

MD2.jpg

MD3.jpg

In other words, exactly what I've been saying: there are big socioeconomic, demographic and cultural differences between the UK and Sweden that made us more vulnerable to start with, our 'lockdown' - badly thought out and badly executed as it was, and fatally damaged by the Cummings fiasco - was probably still better than nothing, and our rates of both death and serious illness (due both to the virus and to other causes) would have been worse still if our government hadn't implemented any lockdown at all.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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Lockdown was not recommended by SAGE; the gvt was not following scientific advice...even Ferguson's paper warned against it. Luckily for us, the virus had already spread enough to avoid a large first wave resurgence. London has herd immunity.
 
Leo

Leo

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MB, had a chance to think about my questions above RE: universities? I'm keen to hear solutions for real-world situations.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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Leo said:
MB, had a chance to think about my questions above RE: universities? I'm keen to hear solutions for real-world situations.
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Yep sorry, I have been thinking about it!

In the UK, the unis were closed, thereby sending infected students home to spread the virus to their more vulnerable relatives. Given the very low risk of serious harm to 20-somethings, I would keep the unis open while offering shielding to any with conditions that put them at serious risk, students or uni staff.

Letting students make grown-up decisions (they are adults) to mix together would then build a buffer of herd immunity among the young to protect the elderly.

If the uni is disbanded, many will still end up socialising with others of their generation but also be around more vulnerable people more.

On the whole, these stop-start measures are merely drawing out the inevitable process of gaining herd immunity (unless we take the Russian vaccine) while inflicting all kinds of collateral damage.
 
Leo

Leo

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so sounds like universities should never have opened in the first place and just put all classes online from the beginning, since being open is what brought students together, got them infected and sent them back home with the virus.

in the above scenario, I suspect many school here would get students (and parents) demanding reduced tuition fees based on losing out on the full campus experience.
 
chava

chava

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Interestingly enough Sweden universities are only just opening again, very carefully.

No herd immunity plan there for sure.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
mixed_biscuits said:
On the whole, these stop-start measures are merely drawing out the inevitable process of gaining herd immunity (unless we take the Russian vaccine) while inflicting all kinds of collateral damage.
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At the risk of opening another huge can of worms ("worms" meaning "questions you will do anything but give a straight answer to"), can I ask why you're so keen on this Russian vaccine, whereas when I brought up the apparently quite promising vaccine developed by the Oxford team, you immediately started talking about unknown long-term side-effects?
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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Mr. Tea said:
At the risk of opening another huge can of worms ("worms" meaning "questions you will do anything but give a straight answer to"), can I ask why you're so keen on this Russian vaccine, whereas when I brought up the apparently quite promising vaccine developed by the Oxford team, you immediately started talking about unknown long-term side-effects?
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I'm not keen on either but the Russian one is the only available way out for the lockdown fanatics.
 
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